The Legend of Korra Vlogs - Endgame

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  • PsychesRose
    So sad to see it end. Now what will we watch obsessively every day?! In daily vlog terms, the next season of Korra is pretty far away.

    It's probably going to be loads better because they brought back more of the original writers this season instead of just the two for the first. Can't wait for that NC review Doug!
  • Unit112358
    rewatch the vlogs for the fun of it?
  • Elphaba645
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    I like LoK better than most "next generation" series. I usually really don't like them, but this was good. Not great, but good. But it just always makes me want to watch TLA instead, which is not a good sign. Oh well. Look forward to season 2!

    Legend of Korra meets Spongebob. Somebody write that fan fiction.
  • Zeldatrek
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    Who says the vlogs are over. Doug has just caught up the present so they'll be weekly instead of daily once the new season of Korra starts. Which happens to be this Friday the 13th. (I wonder if Korra is goiong to blood bend an undead Amon wielding a machete?)
  • Hojo1987  - THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Finally someone else who feels the same way I do!
  • FireFlyan
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    Awesome, indeed! These vlogs have been what I look forward to each day, kind of like how you were excited for each Avatar episode, and I have never been disappointed. Sure, there were some times when I didn't agree with an opinion or two, but that's the great thing about opinions! Like you sang in the Les Mis review, "...everybody has his own."

    ...And yeah, I might have mentioned once or twice something about names over the course of the vlogs, but I swear I stopped when I found out you guys were trolling! Like you care, but I just wanted to get that off my chest. :)

    I look forward to more as the second season kicks off and am especially stoked for The Last Airbender review!
  • citr92  - awesome guys, next up...season 2!
    yea...it's nickelodeon's fault...miniseries nick...really?

    At least for season 2 there's a for sure season 3 to prepare for...most should really form opinions about the show then

    the ending, while rushed thanks to nick, worked for me since aang would have inevitably done it imo

    considering avatars from the past can interact with the living world, only a matter of time until aang did that

    an idea: Have Korra go about 4 or so episodes into next season, maybe even less, like you guys said about going through the losses and whatnot, maybe have her realize something...or whatever for aang to come in and give them back

    just a thought lol

    slower vlogs...but i can't wait for season 2
  • Capt Harkness51
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    The suicide/murder scene is just heartbreaking. Hope season 2 will be awesome!
  • rdfox
    That was pretty much the climax (but not the end!), IMO, of about ten straight minutes of "holy shit!" moments in this episode...
  • KILLAXY  - Book 2 trailer
    The trailer for season 2 looks great
    http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=7ftLm52V1y0
  • Qwertywerty42
    It seems the journey is coming to an end. Well, at least the Last Airbender NC episode is coming soon.
  • jumbokitties
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    The new seasons starts in two weeks though..lol They will probab;y do vlogs for that also.
  • Kiwi_Jr
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    He already said he will :)
  • johncrab
    Well this was a waste of time. They didn't talk about any thing they liked about this episode.
  • anakinsolo68
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    Yeah I know they have to talk about what they dislike but they could have talked about what they liked a but more, especially considering Doug said he really liked the last episode
  • Vioven
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    Pretty much everything you guys said. Korra was a grab bag for me, great ideas and themes but terribly paced with a bad love triangle that ate up time and bad character development for Korra.

    The show coddled her too much, I wanted her to deal with consequences and come out on top. Not deal with consequences for a few seconds and have something bail her out all the time. It's good show on its own, but when you look at ATLA it's disappointing. Fuck not comparing it, this isn't about it being the same show, this is about being as quality with a different premise. I'm hoping that now they have more time they can improve but knowing that they don't have the same team I'm not holding out as much hope.

    Now the movie, well, that's another story.
  • DragonStryk72
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    I really would have preferred the love triangle the other way, where Bolin gets the girl. I don't think they really spent anywhere near the time they needed to establish that Mako returned the feelings Korra had. Meanwhile, they spent a whole bunch of time showing the feelings that Mako obviously had for Asami, so the whole thing comes across like there's a Korra/Asami switch in Mako's head, and the fighting somehow knocked it loose.
  • Shadowmancer1
    The thing that i didn't mind about the lowest moment and telling Mako to leave, was that I thought she went to the edge of the ice to kill herself so that the next avatar could be born, not just mope. Also about the growth thing that I don't have a problem with is that they were forced to live this way after living their whole lives by a madman, not a random tragedy like toph went through when she was born. You wouldn't complain about a bird getting it's wings torn off not growing from that and then being ecstatic when it gets them back and can fly again. just my opinion is all, love you guys for doing this.
  • ToastyMozart
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    I agree with you with the cliff thing. She was close enough to where her tears fell over the edge, and she was showing all the warning signs beforehand.
  • Magiphart
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought she was going to commit suicide.
  • Mousy Voice
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    Wow, you guys, thanks for the nostalgic trip. It certainly has been a fun journey reliving the show for the first time through you guys and it has been fun hearing your perspectives on it. Now I await season 2 of Legend of Korra, and I'll be entertaining myself by imagining Korra bloodbending Spongebob while I wait. The Last Spongebender! I'd go see that.
  • jerseycajun  - Guys, guys, you missed the point of.. everything..
    Korra's journey is meant to parallel and ultimately contrast that of the antagonists. They're all faced with having to deal with having their lives formed by their imposed destinies. Korra's by birth, Tarlok and Amon by their father.

    The way they parallel this in the finale is that they both are faced with the prospect of suicide. Tarlok and Amon realized they could not overcome their imposed roles assigned from without, and tragically end their lives (and it can be argued that Amon knew what his brother was doing and let it happen, hence the tear).

    And let there be no doubt, Korra was at the cliffside to re-start the Avatar cycle so that a "fully functional" Avatar could take her place. The reason why she pushes Mako away is the least "love triangl-y" part of the relationship in the entire series. She's pushing him away because people who contemplate suicide seriously, don't want others to suffer their loss, so they push them away. There was a method to her rejection of him in that scene. She wants to re-start the Avatar cycle but doesn't want anyone else to miss her.

    Korra of episode 1, had she lost her bending, and putting all her self-worth in her role, would have gone through with it. But Korra of episode 12 has discovered that people have placed value in her apart from all those things (the waiting room she comes out into the scene before is filled with those who are there to support her, bending or no-bending), and she realizes that the Avatar is important not just because of what he or she can do, but because they are a real human personality.

    As someone else put it, The Last Airbender is the classic tale of a human being accepting a larger role in the world. Korra's is the reverse. She's a role in need of learning what it is to be human, because all she ever knew of herself was her role.

    However, if you need further proof, let's look at the other clues the creators gave us that this is their intent. In the writing, Aang's first line to Korra is "But you called me here". Now, she didn't actually say anything, but she did do something significant. She sat down and backed off of the cliff.

    From a film-maker's perspective, there's that near-6-second shot of her tear falling off her chin, which I might add, clears-the-edge. Indicating that she's looking down and over it. They let us linger on that shot not for no reason, but to make it absolutely clear (in a way that doesn't scare Nickelodeon by having the hero and lead character explicitly scream "suicide") of her existential crisis.

    And we know explicitly from earlier episodes that her ultimate issues are existential as we see in her fear dream "I will take away your bending and then you will be nothing." said Amon, but essentially a self-confession of her ultimate fear and problem.

    Combined with the earlier signs of suic...
  • akphillips0510
    I caught all of the suicidal undertones but that didn't make it any better. It's quite impressive that they could fit all of that into a Nick show and make it coherent and I did genuinely feel bad for Korra but regardless of whether someone sees her being suicidal in the end or not, what si conveyed is the same. She is not going to have to cope with not having her powers. She was depressed, suicidal, and because of that she gets an avatar free pass. That's just upsetting. She doesn't have to deal with the fallout for long and yes she thought that was the end and we did too and were rooting for her to come back from it. To realize she doesn't have to be reliant on her powers to be an Avatar and there's a spiritual element to it and she can do it. She's more than some powers. Her backing off from the cliff and crying some more does not convey that at all. Aang even says that when she's at her lowest, she's open to change; Really sad->magic fix.
    I also regarded Aangs dilemma fix as a Deus Ex Machina before you say anything about that. It was less offensive in that it made sense in hindsight. It just came out of nowhere with little introduction so it threw me and many people off and came off as an ass pull. Here even in hindsight it just makes me upset. Yes they didn't know they were getting another season and had to wrap up plot points, but then they should've spent less time meandering on things that weren't very important and put in time on this VERY important thing. This deserves 2 or 3 episodes in the constrains of a 12 episode mini-series.
  • jerseycajun
    Her backing off from the cliff and crying some more does not convey that at all. Aang even says that when she's at her lowest, she's open to change; Really sad->magic fix.

    Couldn't disagree more. And I think it cheapens the severity of suicide to use terms like "really sad" to describe that state of mind. Really sad is what you are when your pet dies. Suicidal is a state of mind orders of magnitude more severe, and when used as a backdrop for a story that deals with the main character's (and the main villains' toward the end) crisis of self-worth and identity, is the kind of plot point a story needs as it's ultimate challenge to either be overcome (happy ending) or to fail and end tragically (demonstrated by the bloodbending brothers).

    The severity of what we both acknowledge was happening, to me, mitigates the lack of running time devoted to it, at least to a large enough degree that I can forgive the pacing problems without overlooking it as a flaw. Yes I could have used a couple more episodes to dwell on it. But I'm also not as harsh on the pro-bending stuff early on as I felt that it made Amon's attack mid-season on the arena that much more shocking and established him as a much greater threat because all that time spent there gave us a setting where, cheating at bending aside, we felt was 'safe', comfortable, and identifiable almost as its own character. When Amon blows up the platform, it feels like an attack on something we've come to rely on as a safe place, away from all the relatively minor actions his group had been shown taking prior.

    Which is to say, I wouldn't change the first half, not in that way. I'd rather have just seen a couple more episodes added to the back end, but left the substance and restoration as-is.
  • akphillips0510  - Continued
    It all comes down to the pacing being absolute shit and that making the quality of this much less than it could've been.
  • jerseycajun
    Yes, the pacing is definitely a problem, I acknowledge this.

    But in balance, it still came up a lot more positive than negative when viewed in the whole.
  • jerseycajun  - Continued from previous entry...
    Combined with the earlier signs of suicidal intentions like pushing loved ones away and pairing this scene with the one right before it of the villains' suicide, and considering that the writers as demonstrated in the Avatar series, have the capacity of being quite sly and subtle in communicating their intent, it seems like there almost can't be another conclusion one can take as strong as this one is with the bread-crumbs we have been left.

    I will admit that it would have been nicer to stretch these ideas over a couple more episodes, but for what we have, the evidence is all there and the pieces fit in a way that is ultimately satisfying when one considers the severity of the state of mind of those who are on the brink of self-extermination. Once we realize this is what's going on, it's anything but a cop out to end the way it did, and it's totally justified to have her get her abilities back.

    Hope you guys read these things. I'm just tired of having to spell it out (mostly to those I come across on the internet. For whatever reason, the people who I've seen it with in person always come to the suicide conclusion).

    Watch the last scenes again. It's all there.
  • Syph26
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    I wanted to hit on this but couldn't think of how. I'm glad you did this detailed write-up of that. When you look back on it, it's very clear this is what they intended but had to be subtle about it.

    Big wall of text, but very worth the time to read!
  • jerseycajun  - Thanks for the vote of confidence!
    I've been following these videos hoping that when they got to the end they'd see it, but alas...

    I came prepared, however, as it's not the first time I've found the need to spell it out :).

    I also think the writers are telling us something rather profound about the nature of the Avatar's role, that the human side is every bit as necessary to the avatar's ultimate function in this universe if not more important than all those nifty abilities.

    I think, given that the next season about to start, will have two episodes dedicated to telling the origin story of the first Avatar in flashback, may expound on this idea further, I'm willing to bet.
  • rdfox
    THANK YOU. This put the argument into far better words than I ever could have. You absolutely hit the nail on the head, and it makes complete sense.
  • FireFlyan  - Re: jerseycajun
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    I don't think their problem is that she got her powers back, it's that she got them so quickly. They mention that if this was the route they were going to go with from the beginning, then there should have been more time devoted to it.

    I agree, but I also didn't catch the suicide bit (with Korra). I don't think you're wrong, but they didn't have to make it so subtle. They could have showed a few scenes of the people that love her, or actually show her mentally calling to Aang by some method, because, like them, I didn't see her at her lowest point. She was low, that is obvious, but I didn't feel like she was at her breaking point yet.
  • jerseycajun
    Honestly? I think any literal visualization of her calling out to him, just thinking about that, reminds me of a cheesy Superfriends moment from the 80's. like she was doing a bad Aquaman impersonation.

    I can't see Nickelodeon letting them get any more explicit about the plot point either. It's one thing to have your stated villains do that, but the hero? The one we're supposed to sympathize most with? I don't see Nick having the kind of balls for that. They're not FX, AMC or Showtime, exactly. Most of they're programming is way too safe by comparison to be any more explicit.

    Besides, it's a much more elegant and graceful, and tasteful way to convey it as-is.
  • jerseycajun
    I get the argument that it was rushed and i agree with that, but it's that her final resolution was un-earned, which was another charge they made against it, which I disagree with and explained above.
  • Maarons  - Wait....
    If Korra were to blood-bend Spongebob, wouldn't that make him a used tampon?
  • Zelgadis
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    And so we end with Spongebob the Bloodbender...
  • capttravis1228  - Spirits
    Doug and Rob are ignoring the same thing they ignored in the first series...the spiritual side.

    The entire theme of this season of the show was Korra's disconnection to her spiritual side. And in the final episode she finally connects to the spiritual aspect of being the Avatar.

    I agree it would have been cool for Korra to learn the spiritual aspect of being the Avatar without having powers...but the theme of the show was cohesive and was clearly expressed in the ending of the season. And it leaves it open to the next season which includes Korra's journey into the spirit realm.
  • FactorFiction
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    Well, that's the end of Season 1. I don't have much to say except I thought your opinions were very on par with a lot of fans of the show.

    Now we just wait for the new season. Let us hope it is better. Or at the very least, just as good.
  • TheTannedOtaku
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    So...long story short, this season was messy, hope next season's better...
  • DracoDeVis
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    I would have liked to see a whole episode devoted to Korra trying to connect with Aang for guidance, and only managing to do so after she discovers the strength to go on without the rest of her bending. THEN he returns it to her.
  • doctorwho3600
    About that name thing at the end, Avatar: The Last Airbender was renamed Avatar: The Legend of Aang in Europe. That is where they got the idea. Didn't bother renaming the movie though, so I had no idea that there was a legend of Aang movie out. Thank God.
  • Critic From The Future  - Tarrlock's double suicide
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    I thought you would talk more about the scene where Tarrlock just up and committed suicide and took Amon with him. My first reaction when I saw that was "HOLY SHIT. This...is on the same channel as Spongebob...?". They must have really pushed the bounds for what you can put in family show there.
  • mifi
    I agree. I so disappointed I didn't get to see Korra and Lin adapt to things without their powers, even if it was just for a couple of episodes. (Plus Sokka must of been in Lin's life as well, are you telling me he didn't teach her how to use a boomerang?) Not to mention Korra did connect with the spirit world so she's still very much the avatar. I think Korra grew over the series, but it would have been amazing to see a character whose identity was so caught up in being the avatar have to deal without the avatar powers. It would have been a great setup for a second season or just an open ending.

    And the love triangle sucks so much because they start it before you even know the characters. Why should I care about Korra and Mako getting together if I don't care about Mako.
  • BigMac90
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    I tend to agree that the ending was rushed, and that the middle of the show was the weakest part… though I don’t think it bothered me as much as it bothered Doug. All in all, though this isn’t as good as “Airbender”, I did enjoy it and look forward to Season 2.

    I hope Rob continues to appear in the Season 2 Vlogs. My problem with him in the “Airbender” ones was that I wanted Doug to discover the show on his own, and I was afraid that Rob’s views on it might colour Doug’s. But since “Korra” is new territory for both of them, I’d love to see them both in these from now on.

    PS. Did you guys know that Asami (Sato’s daughter) is voiced by the woman who played Princess Yue in the movie?
  • larirenshadow
    For the ending: this was going to be it. The creators didn't know they were getting a book 2 when they finished this. That got green lit a few months before Book 1 aired. Books 3 and 4 were green lit after Book 1. So this was going to be it.

    As for Korra getting everything back she still has a lot to learn about her spiritual side. Which is going to be all of Book 2 from the looks of things. They aren't, however, going to deal with Korra giving back people's bending or anything else...at least not in the first episode nor possibly the first four as the summaries for those were announced yesterday. Plus Book 2 starts six months after Book 1.

    Amon is dead. That's final.

    Also remember when you were like "did her water just run out?" in episode 6? The current theory is no, it didn't but Amon bent it out of her control. And speaking of Spongebob when that episode aired and Korra was falling there was a Spongebob add of him laughing.
  • Faerillis
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    I've got to disagree with Rob about the Deus Ex Machina bit. First off, a being coming from nowhere and teaching Aang a technique no one has ever heard of to avoid killing Ozai? That DEFINES Deus Ex Machina. Korra getting her powers back? There's actually plenty of lead up for that. In the flashbacks of Aang fighting Yakone we see that entering the Avatar State breaks Bloodbending, and Amon took her powers away using Bloodbending, so of course she'd get them back.

    And no
    Aang couldn't teach her Energybending. He's a spirit. Spirit's can't bend, how could he teach her?

    More than that, she's the Avatar and couldn't use the powers she'd need to serve her duties; she was at the cliffs to commit suicide so the Avatar powers would be passed to someone who could use the elements.
  • ToastyMozart
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    How did you guys not get that she was planning to jump off the cliff!?
    She wasn't pushing Mako away because she was sad. she was planning to 'restart the avatar cycle' since she thought that without the other 3 elements she couldn't do her job. It's exactly what many real people considering suicide do.
  • ManWithGoodTaste
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    Holy something, I never thought of that scene like that!
  • ToastyMozart
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    I have a psychologist friend, so I actually noticed that Korra was showing a loooot of the real-life warning signs, so her pushing her friends away and the fact that she was close enough to the cliff edge for her tear to clear it pretty much cemented it.
    The worst part is that while real-life suicide accomplishes nothing, you could actually see a line of logic here (even though she probably could have handled her job with just airbending).
    :'(
  • jerseycajun  - I remember when I watched it the first time...
    It struck me what she was doing there was suicide, but at the time I thought that there was no way Nickelodeon would let that kind of plot development slip by on a 'kid's' network. But yet, it was the first reaction I had to it, and only been supported and reinforced upon repeat viewings.

    Hence, the only objection my mind could reasonably think against it was some silly studio's consideration rather than what the makers intent was. Deciding which was more persuasive was a no-brainer :)

    Honestly though, if they continue making projects in this universe in the future, a shift in networks would be entirely appropriate as the original fan base gets older and more sophisticated.

    I mean, in only their second series, we've seen now a murder/suicide (or rather double suicide if I'm right in reading Noatak's final reaction shot) and the contemplated suicide of the show's hero and namesake. That's even more ballsy than the ending they came up with for Airbender, and if it continues, they need to find another network more suitable for those kinds of expectations.

    It doesn't ever have to become "Game of Thrones", but it could eventually be as emotionally and thematically complex as that show, without the R-rated content of course, and a tone less nihilistic and more hopeful.
  • Fontinau
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    _'It doesn't ever have to become "Game of Thrones", but it could eventually be as emotionally and thematically complex as that show'_

    Oh God, Avatar and Korra are so much better than that piece of trash.
  • jerseycajun
    I don't dig the often gratuitous content, but I do appreciate the complex story threads, not all too far removed from real modern political stuff (aside from the fact that our political leaders' backstabbing and conniving don't take the form of literal murder in most western, first world countries), and the fact that it is building a tonal and thematic statement on how small all of that will probably end up being compared to the real existential threats faced in common to all sides.

    In any case, I don't think anything bad would come of allowing for an ever complex social and political landscape developing in the Avatar universe. They've already done it once now, moving the technological, social implications of previous eras forward to generate more complicated questions to answer. As fans get older, it wold be nice to see a more consistent tonal maturity that replaces the child-like humor of the first show, diminished in the second already, and turn it into grim humor used for tension relief around stories that are ever more desperate (in the good sense).

    The show has been compared to Lord of the Rings in every good way possible (Elements of Korra were rightly compared even in these videos to the tone of "The Dark Knight"), and that story managed to be riveting to lots of age groups without ever dipping too much into the childlike humor aspect. In fact, it's almost relentlessly gritty and grim, and humor is used only sparsely for tension relief.

    There is so much more room to grow in this universe. It presents almost limitless potential, as each new Avatar has unique challenges to overcome, combined with a willingness to push the maturity factor deeper and deeper.
  • Fontinau
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    Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

    I suppose Game of Thrones (or A Song of Ice and Fire, if you prefer) does have 'complex story threads', insofar as a lot of things are happening to a lot of people in a lot of places. But that's easy. The hard part is to make the threads cohere, and it remains to be seen whether George R. R. Martin will be able to do that. (I doubt it.)

    I don't think Game of Thrones is an intelligent depiction of any kind of politics. Modern politicians have to deal with, on the one hand, the interest groups that pay for their campaigns - businesses, advocacy groups, what's left of the unions - and, on the other hand, with voters who have intense, morally charged beliefs about economic and social issues. Game of Thrones has nothing to say about any of that. It doesn't have anything to say about pre-modern politics either. Do you think Martin even knows how the economies of Westeros and Essos function? I don't think he does. And then there's the Daenerys storyline, where an approximately medieval women arrives at a modern liberal opinion on slavery.

    Martin does have something to say about other fantasy stories, but what he has to say is puerile: Basically, "Those other fantasy stories were naïve. I'm going to show you the way things really are."

    If you are implying that "grim humor" is better or more appropriate for a mature audience than "childlike humor", then I would say that is simply wrong. Some of the greatest, most profound humor is childlike, and a whole lot of attempts at grim humor are very bad.

    I certainly agree that the Avatar world could serve as material for many further interesting stories.
  • jerseycajun
    "If you are implying that "grim humor" is better or more appropriate for a mature audience than "childlike humor", then I would say that is simply wrong. Some of the greatest, most profound humor is childlike, and a whole lot of attempts at grim humor are very bad."

    Well, that will always be the case if we hold up the best examples of one kind against the worst examples of another :)

    Coming from someone who was already well into adulthood by the time I was introduced to the Avatar: The Last Airbender universe, the child-like humor was always the least interesting part of the show to my adult mind. I never would hold that against the show, because it's meant to span the generation gap. Ask most adults what their favorite part of the show was, and it'll be something along the lines of the Zuko storyline and the Iroh thread. Not because they didn't like the other threads, (I enjoyed those too), but because they were the most relatable to adults.

    Some of the most relatable characters to adults in Korra were clearly Tenzin and Lin's story. Even Korra's arc, as mentioned, was mostly a mature one. Even as the videos above have pointed out, the weakest aspects for adults have been the more juvenile aspects, which seem more and more out of place as the rest of the show reaches for more mature goals (The fart-bending for example, while cute in a way, felt decidedly out of place, and kind of turned the villains into pushovers whereas before they had been depicted as an

    What I mean by 'grim' humor is the kind of dialog you got in Empire Strikes Back, in the midst of overwhelming odds, you'd get a quip from Han Solo that effectively kept your nerves in check. I can easily see a Bolin type character eventually evolving into the kind of guy that can use wit to diffuse tension without falling back into Sokka antics. That's all I'm saying.

    The fans of the original show are growing up, and by the time this series is done, they'll be well into adulthood. If any future plans are to be made regarding more avatar universe series, you'll either have to go backwards to the tonal balance of the original, or strike out and do something perhaps a bit more daring still, which is what the creators of the show seem to want to do.
  • silverspetz
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    "Well, that will always be the case if we hold up the best examples of one kind against the worst examples of another :)"

    That is still just assuming that one kind of humor is inherently better, which I don't agree with. The best of childlike and whimsical humor can be just as profound as the best of grim and dark humor, and the worst of the grim and dark is just as painful to sit through as the worst of the childlike.

    Sure, as an adult the humor is not the biggest reason I give for liking Avatar, but it is definitely one of them and the show would not have been better off without it. The fact that they could pull off as much depth as they did and still have such a light tone is part of what makes the show so impressive. Making it "dark" and skipping things like Sokka's antics would have made it a much weaker show. The most juvenile thing the creators could do in my opinion would be to make a drastic tonal shift and assume that would make it appeal more to adults.
  • rdfox
    How about this? We make the humor a little less "childlike" and a little more "dark" not by making it more grim or less antics-driven, but by making it a bit more dry at times? I always felt that Sokka was at his funniest when he was being more sarcastic than slapstick. Sure, a bit of antics-type slapstick humor can be as good as anything, particularly for defusing tension (witness Chewie getting a toolbox dropped on him in the Falcon in Empire Strikes Back, for example), but having the bulk of the humor be more sardonic/snarky would fit well with a more mature tone. Think the sort of humor you see in, say, the Law and Order franchise, or NCIS, or CSI, or pretty much any other decent cop show, where they make wisecracks and snark at each other to keep themselves sane when dealing with some of the worst humanity has to offer.

    Another way of putting it--if the humor in AtLA was like in the movie "Airplane!" (one of the all-time great comedies), I think what would be appropriate for a third Avatarverse show would be having the humor akin to "Dr. Strangelove" (ALSO one of the all-time great comedies, but in a VERY different way). The important part is that you still have to have that sense of *fun*, the feeling that even as horrible as the situation may be, this is a universe you might want to escape TO, instead of escape FROM, and that the characters are actually having at least a *little* fun when they can.

    So what I'm saying is that you can have the humor get more mature with the audience, but without a drastic tonal shift of everything getting all GRIMDARK~! if you play it right. It's a fine line, but I think Bryke and Co. would be able to walk it successfully.
  • jerseycajun
    I agree. I shouldn't have said "grim" so much as I meant as written written kind of like how Joss Whedon is able to balance smart humor, action and drama in his work.
  • jerseycajun
    Not 'better', just more in-synch and less distracting for the darker more mature themes and direction they seem to want to take the show in. I like that direction because hey, the younger fan base themselves are quickly becoming adults, and the series seems more than capable of handling the darker stuff. But the style of humor should fit the shift in tone as well to match.

    I think I pretty much clarified that I don't take any points away from the original series for having child-like humor in it, as it's thematic elements were more accommodating for that style.
  • jerseycajun
    As far as Game of Thrones is concerned, I think all the things you mentioned in modern society (advocacy groups, unions, etc.) are all just different names for kingdoms, lordships and land-interests that "Thrones" revels in.

    The names of the groups change, but Realpolitik smells like Realpolitik regardless of setting and names. It's not the specifics that draw the parallels, it's the mechanisms of shifting human group-interests and allegiances that does. There are timeless driving forces behind the things we give names to that allow people to draw comparisons. (The names change but the timeless characteristics behind them and driving them do not) Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to create allegory out of anything but stories that take place specifically in our own world as it is today, and that's kind of boring, actually.

    And I sincerely hope George Martin does pull it off. It's not that hard to see the overarching theme he's aiming for provided he sticks the landing. We'll see.
  • jerseycajun  - Dang, now that I think about it...
    There's even a parallel in the tear being shed.

    Noatak right before they die, and Korra right before she backs away.

    I mean... wow.
  • Syph26
    avatar
    Yes, it would be so much more appreciated if they didn't have to be so subtle, I think. Of course there's always the danger of going too far. For instance, Ren & Stimpy on Nickelodeon was brilliant. It was edgy but knew where to draw the line. That was because of the studio. When the creator finally got to do his version of the show it was stupid sex jokes and just utter garbage.

    Now, I don't think Mike and Bryan would fall into the same trap but there is something to be said for working around restrictions and its effect on creativity.
  • jerseycajun
    I think if those who hate the ending now for it being "too easy" on Korra in the finale give the series another viewing, perhaps as we all get older, and start picking up cues we didn't see before, we might see a sea-change reversal.

    Especially, if as I suspect, the creators may choose to expound further on the human part of the Avatar, and it's importance in each cycle to fulfilling its ultimate function.

    But you're right. I think in this case, the restrictions of airing a show on a kids' network may have inadvertently given us a narrative much more artistically elegant (when it came to the main character's arc) than anyone is accustomed to seeing for a cartoon show in the U.S., even compared to the high bar the previous series set when it came to sophistication. Time will look more favorably on the first season than initial mixed reactions seem to suggest, I believe.
  • ManWithGoodTaste
    avatar
    >it will never be like the good old days
    ;_;
  • Samuraiko  - "The Last Spongebender"
    avatar
    Y'know, I'm really glad these two have gone through and watched this (and ATLA). By going through episode by episode and reviewing things like character development, story development, setting, and so on - I think this could definitely have an impact on Doug and Rob's own work (ESPECIALLY anything involving a long-term storyline). I don't know if the new NC is going to have the same character development that his earlier incarnation did (I certainly hope so), but if they've learned anything from watching these, hopefully they will implement it.

    Or maybe do another movie (a la Kickassia, Suburban Knights, and To Boldly Flee) - since those tended to be about 20-30 minute segments (almost the same length as an Avatar or Korra episode), it might revitalize their ideas for scripts and maybe help them focus on how it CAN be done (multiple producers and budget aside).

    We can hope.

    Looking forward to their reviews for Season 2 when that starts.
  • Kiwi_Jr
    avatar
    Nice way to end the Vlog guys! XD
  • ToastyMozart
    avatar
    I wonder if they've seen that "Spongebob laughs at Korra's pain" meme?
    http://i3.kym-cdn.com/ photos/images/original/ 000/304/592/24c.gif
  • dhusk
    First of all, I want to say that this Vlog review series was GREAT, both The Last Airbender ones and the Legend of Korra ones both. Lots of great fun and insights, and it was awesome having an excuse to rewatch the series to keep up with what Doug (and sometimes Rob) were talking about in it.

    A lot of what was said about Legend of Korra's ending is spot-on. Great resolution to the conflict, but a kind of rushed deus ex machina in resolving the central remaining major problem.

    However, I will say that I think it is very unfair to negatively compare the twelve episodes of Legend of Korra to the 61 episodes of The Last Airbender. I really don't recall The Last Airbender getting good until toward the end of season 1, which was more than 12 episodes in.

    Since Korra is now approved at least through Season 3, I'd say wait until at least the end of Season 3 to really compare the two series on a full qualitative scale. I think Korra may still surprise a lot of people now that the series has the narrative room it needs to tell the stories its creators want.
  • ThisIsScorpio
    avatar
    There's gonna be 4 seasons total actually. :)
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