interesting review NC
loved it though
I enjoyed the things you analyzed
and you caught the littlest things
great video as always :D

Hi Tim

Oh come on, from what Doug said Story sucked in Dark Knight because it was too well writen, thats not an argument! The Fact that EVERYTHING in TDK is explained is actually a good thing cuz there is no place to doubt about How the Fuck Bruce digged a Batcave exactly beneth his Mansion, or where he's getting that all Bat-Gear...in The Dark Knight everything has sense and none of it seems forced.

And btw...I'm just fucking tired of hearing what Bale's voice as Batman sounded weird - its everyone .... for Christ sake for the first time in a Superhero movie someone thought that if main hero dresses in tights and starts fighting crime..someone might actually recognize his voice..so he changes it...
And Bale voice actually sounded threatning, even Scary ...so i dont understand why so many people hate it so much ?

it sounded Badass...or should i said Batass and for me it was smart move from the Nolan cuz if you are multimilionare playboy and one of the most known people in Gotham city...you dress like a Bat, and eventually someone will recognize your voice and in TDK that problem was solved,
where in other movies main hero can talk with his mom thru cellphone and if he's wearing a mask...she will never know that he's her son

and Im not 100% sure...but in one of Batman comic books (year one i think) it was explained that Bruce Wayne lowers his voice while he's Batman so no one can recognize it ....so The Dark Knight is not only better written, it remembers his comic-roots and because of that Nolan's Batman movies are the superior ones.

Nobody is saying that TDK sucks.. they are BOTH excellent films, and the original Batman is a bit better. Keaton being a better batman than Bale is a fact, not an opinion. The suit looks so much better on him in the 2 movies he starred in. And, FYI, Keaton DOES change his voice, but he doesn't overdo it as Bale did. It's so exaggerated. And again, I love BOTH films a lot. Batman is my favorite superhero. But analyzing every aspect of them, the original comes out winner. Ledger is without a doubt the best joker, and quite possibly the best performance I've ever seen, but he is not the whole movie, which at the at indeed gets kind of tiring.

No, It's not

no its not dumbass,its his opinion.

lol I bet you're under 10. Just sayin'

ya i think he is and fuck you

The original Batman is 110% better than the dark knight!! It's THEE defining Batman movie in my opinion!!!! heath Ledger??? no way, jack was the better Joker!! And of course Michael keaton is the best Batman EVER!!! Suck me!!

lol you must be on drugs -.-

Keaton kicks Bale's ass. It's not even close.

Technically, saying Keaton is a better batman than Bale is an opinion, because you can't prove it right or wrong with any fact. That's why the Nostalgic Critic said that what he was saying was just opinion.

Yeah,um you both need to lighten up! Its just comical satire,you know,for entertainment purposes? GEEZ!

Wrong, i'm saying it sucks. Dark knight is TRASH

I would call that an "over-reaction", ladies and gentlemen. When something in a story is over analyzed to the point of it just being tiring, it's not good writing. If I held up a rock, you'd know it was a rock without me having to explain that it was a rock. But if i said "This is a rock. It's gray. I found it outside. I was going to get my mail. I wanted a rock. I found this rock. So i kept it." You would probably tell me to shut the hell up. I also am not saying that dark knight was a bad movie. far far from it. I saw it three times in theatres and more when it came out in DVD. But I wasn't one of the people to go ape-shit over it and batman begins and call them the best movies ever made. Yes....Bale's voice was extremely over the top. To deny this is mind-boggling. If you closed your eyes and just heard keaton talk in his batman voice. You wouldn't know it was him. It's easy for viewers to SAY that they would know its him...BECAUSE THEY DO KNOW ITS HIM, ALREADY. His voice is still lowered, so it too stays true to the batman comics, as you say dark knight did.

/endrant

I know I've read it somewhere in the Batman comics that he does change his voice to something more gravely.

Kevin Conroy definitely did the voice change in the animated series, at least in the seasons before the redesigns.
Off topic of the movies, but I thought it was cool how Conroy did the Bruce voice when Bruce Wayne was dealing with characters who didn't know he was Batman, but when he was talking with Alfred or anyone else who knew the secret, he always used the Batman voice, suggesting that Batman is actually the real person, and Bruce is the disguise. Always thought that was a brilliant choice and it subtly added more depth to the character.

So true! Conroy lightened up Bruce Wayne's voice while keeping Batman's tone serious but controlled.

u have no idea what ur talking about dude..For one Bales voice Is RIDICULOUS and its soo bad that it almost takes away from the fucking scenes of the movie. another thing is that its OVERWRITTEN horribly so many scenes in the dark knight are not necasary and are drawn out..Batman has such a sureal atmosphere i cant even describe it..and dude BATASS seriously thats so cool..ur creative im really impressed... GROW BALLS GROW A GOOD TASTE IN MOVIES dont be a fucking sterotypical dumbass modern movie viewer.The Dark knight is kick ass but the amount of praise and attention it gets is so ridiculous and outrageous that it makes me sick..

expanding on what MaroBot said... In the Batman comic miniseries, "No Man's Land", Robin makes a comment about Bruce's 'gravelly' Batman voice...

Too well written? No, he said too wordy.

I completely agree. Batman has a great atmosphere, and that is what Batman is all about. It makes you understand without explaining everything.

And no, having "no doubt" is foolish. Leave the comprehension to the viewer. The intelligent one will get it without perhaps even being able to articulate it to words completely. It just makes you feel what the characters are feeling and reminds you of life.

Dark Knight dragged a little, but it held you in the whole time. It's awesome, but not classic.

Have you ever watched Batman the Animated Series? Have you ever heard Kevin Conroy doing his Batman/Bruce Wayne voice? Well some people, including me, did, and those are the ones who think Bale's Batman voice is silly.

I think you misunderstand what Doug meant by "everything is explained." He was more complaining about not knowing anything about the Joker. He's just some random guy who shows up in make-up. I think they could have spent a little less time on Batman, and a little more on establishing the the Joker.

First off it is an arguement, because of several reasons, 1. Everything being talked about in the movie, this never happens in real life, and he wasn't talking about how he got his weapons and how he dug his cave, he was speaking about every characters problems being talked about every 5 seconds. So it is an arguement and for Christan Bales voice, no it sounds completey retarded. It doesn't sound scary, first time i heard it i said wow he sounds like a complete moron. And Keaton does change his voice, just not to a degree like christan bale, he forces it rather than Keatons being natural. And it's not that its not well written, it would have been different if every problem or deilehma in the film wasnt talked about. Like Doug said, In batman the answers were obvious. Heres an example, Joker will blow up a Dam, obvious answer Batman will go stop him but in TDK they would ANALYZE everything like Batman would speak about how many people will die and Alfred would say o no dont go because Joker has a trap and will kill you in the process, and Batman would respond. So on and so forth and that was happening in TDK. And thats the problem, your not suppose to anaylze it, thats the job of the people watching the movie. True there was no room for doubt but yet again there wasn't much doubt in the first Batman which makes your statement used in vain. There both great films but batman is the classic and better one, TDK was a great film no doubt, but just because Batman is a bit better doesnt mean it takes anything away from TDK.

About the story - The problem with TDK was that too much was psychoanalyzed. There's no opportunity for the audience to think for themselves, everything is explained. Rather than let the Joker speak through his actions, he himself explains exactly why he does what he does, which is simply weird. Instead of letting the viewer *see* what the consequences are of the character's actions (the entire point of a movie), they are explained ad infinitum. It drags the movie on a lot aswell, which is simply not good.

Calm the fuck down, both films are epic and I think you are right about the voice thing with Bale, but mos people thik TDK is just too damn long, while the original film is not. Also people don't need to see how Batman got his gadgets, he is, as you said, a multimillionaire, he also owns a company which has a tech division of some sort, any idiot can put 2 and 2 together and see that he bought the shit

Well yes it is true that they found a solution to hide his identity better, but you seem to be forgetting this is a super hero movie.
Nobody cares about voices or w/e, that's why Superman only wears glasses to hide his secret.
Tbh, it woulda been nicer if Bale just used his normal voice so it wasn't so hard to understand Batman, but i do take your opinion into account, if you like it, then that's fine by me, but IMO, i found it quite annoying, it's ok for change....but truly...it's annoying haha

Good argument you have though :)

You know...when you're trying to make a valid argument about anything it really doesn't help to use slang like "btw" or "cuz" aswell as not using proper capitalization. It just makes you look like an idiot trying to sound smart, even if what you're saying does sound pretty educated.

And I'm pretty sure that in the comics Batman used a deeper more serious voice, like Kevin Conroy's Batman, not a voice that sounds like someone screaming into a five dollar microphone.

When stories are too well written and EVERYTHING is explained, it doesn't leave the audience with questions. While sure, when NOTHING is explained, it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. Only leave things that don't NEED explaining to not be explained. The bat-cave, you have your imagination...he's a billionaire and can buy a large amount of property at the drop of the hat. Some things DO seem forced because the bat gear doesn't REQUIRE explaining, though it is nice. Like he said, it's better if the dilemmas are less analyzed and more implied.

With Batman, Keaton DOES deepen his voice. Listen to him in a casual conversation with someone, then him during the threat. He's heartier when speaking as Batman. It's more of a low monotone, as well as thickening it (More so, just speaking deeper). Bale sounds like he's trying too hard to sound frightening, it's just silly. If someone spoke like that, i'd laugh...if someone spoke like Keaton, then it'd be frightening because he's calm, but dark..people hate it because, again, he just sounds too damned silly.

I would've thought that doug would shoot his gun and the little sign that says "bang!" would come out :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

fuck you tgwtg and you to people that like batman more than the dark knight

Mmmm...I might have to agree with you on the original's classic feel, but I have to say if this was indeed on points, Ledger's Joker might be worth 2 instead of 1.

Ledger's Joker against anything else would be worth 2 points, but not against Nicholson's Joker. It really does measure up. He is absolutely hilarious, and also quite creepy. Ledger deserved the win, I guess... but he only deserved 1 point.

fuck you superman

Brilliant once again. This must have been a tough decision, but you've put a lot of effort into it, and I agree with pretty much all your opinions. The ending was hysterical, if a bit predictable. The idea for "Old Vs. New" as a recurring concept to the show is a good one, especially if you decided to rush a Terminator 1984 and Terminator 2009 comparison. (Please?)

Great Video

Yea,I do agree with you.They were both awesome,Original Batman is awesome wether you agree or not.Heath Ledger is fucking nuts.

Oh thank God, someone who doesn't think the Dark Knight is the second coming of Christ. Thank you Nostalgia Critic.

Amazing ending by the way. Christian Bale flipping out is always amusing to listen to.

Very good, sire

awesome as usual ^_^

Christian Bale is evil :evil:

No battle between the cars? Why?

Madkap: There is a good reason he didn't choose a battle between the cars.. That reason happens to be the fact that they are not important parts to the movie. All the points he used were important to a good movie.

TGWTG: Great video, as usual. I actually agree with you on the old one being slightly better. I know I liked both, just the first = better. Are you going to make more old vs. new stuff?

because it would just give the 89' film more points. the tumbler is just overdoing it, but keatons car is classic and styllish.

Was that convo in the end really bale that time he got pissed at this dude in his set?

It was on the set of Terminator: Salvation. The guy he was mad at was the Director of Photography.

Yup

Go make Reign of Fire 2!

No!

I think I'm really gonna love this new segment of yours NC. I loved everything about this video; I can't think of anything wrong with it, and that last bit with Christian Bale was the perfect set up.

Rock On NC. :cheer:

I completely agree with you about the Heath Ledger Joker, even when he yelled LOOK AT ME in that scene where he does god knows what to that innocent civilian I felt like I was going to shit my pants.

I loved the ending of the review
(Wow...Bale was pissed.)

GO MAKE RING OF FIRE 2

I liked the old Batman over the new... It seemed to me nothing got exciting in the Dark Knight 'til about the last 30-45 minutes. Plus I have been a big Michael Keaton fan forever... Great to see a new review, loved it.

Awesome debate!

To be honest, I don't know which was the better film. Batman is full of action and spectacle while The Dark Knight is more subtle and plot driven.

I have to disagree with the NC about one thing though that Bale had me sold as Batman with TDK while Keaton was a great Batman while he lasted.

I am still indifferent about the Joker though as both Nicholson and Ledger brought their own unique visions to the character. Both are damn near perfect as the clown prince of crime.

I can't stand Vicki Vale's screaming so I am going with Rachel Dawes as the love interest of Bruce Wayne. Michael Caine is a better Alfred than Michael Gough. Aaron Eckhart is the best Two-Face/Harvey Dent of all-time.

Make more segements of Old vs. New! I love that concept :-)

Well.. I never thought Bale vs Keaton would be such a debate.. for me it's always been a "no contest".. keaton is definitely the best of all.. bale comes in second.. the thing that really bothers me, besides the stupid voice he makes(which actually doesn't bother me, but it doesn't go by unnoticed), is that nobody could ever fit the bat suit as well as keaton.. not kilmer, not clooney, not even bale, who looks even kind of goofy.. but I guess that's the costume desiger's fault idk.. other than that, bale was an awesome bruce wayne.. I just like to see a cool looking batman, an only keaton pulled it off.. and about the girl.. I don't like any of them, my favorite was selena kyle from batman returns.. there's nothing so great about vicky vale, and neither about rachel dawes.. and i hated maggie gyllenhaal.. about the alfreds, that's the biggest debate for me.. michael caine is a much better actor obviously, but he isn't really alfred.. he is too much for alfred.. is like overdone(by the writers, not caine).. I liked the one from before better

sorry.. forgot about the joker.. erm.. well they are very different.. each has their own style.. I'd like to say I like them both the same, but that's not entirely true.. Ledger's performance is a once in a lifetime experience.. the best of the best.. off the charts.. I'll go with the new joker in this one.. i like it that he is really scary.. like, shit-your-pants scary..

He is also the ONLY harvey dent of all time, and if you say otherwise you are WRONG and should be punched.

Gotta disagree with ya, NC. The Dark Knight is definitely the better of the two in my opinion.

That's not to say I disliked Batman because I didn't, that movie like most of Tim Burton's others, kicked ass. I just think TDK improved where Batman fell through. Plus, Batman was somewhat....boring in some places.

I'm not a Ledger fanboy, and I don't go with the crowd, but it's my own opinion that TDK is the better of the two. I still respect your opinion though, and I see what made you come to those conclusions.

I liked Bale's voice. People always wonder why Super Heroes talk in their normal voice around people who might recognize them.. The first movie that goes and does the opposite gets criticized.

I don't think I've ever seen a movie as epic as the Dark Knight. And to me, all the "commentary" just made it more engrossing. Although, the non-stop action did make me feel at certain points that i was about to have a heart attack.. I guess that isn't good, but, meh, it was awesome.

The Dark Knight is NOT the first movie where the hero speaks in a different voice. Bale's voice was absolutely ridiculous. Not intimidating, just funny.

lol batman sounds like he has lung cancer

Beauty

This was a very inspiring video. I do agree with you on Batman being the better movie, even though I still love The Dark Knight. For me, Batman is my all-time favorite movie, along with Tim Burton being my favorite director.

Surprisingly, I actually owned a Bob action figure just like that one. Along with a dozen other Batman and Joker toys.

lol batman sounds like he has lung cancer

I agree. Batman is a better movie than the Dark Knight in some respects and a worse movie in others. However neither one is below excellence, and I think that the amount of people who will agree or disagree with you depend on the size and age range of the current Batman fanbase. Older fans would probably agree that Batman was better, while the younger generation would say the Dark Knight was better. Unfortunately, visuals seem to leave a greater impact with movies and video games nowadays on the youth rather than the final product itself. Anyway, great review as always NC. :)

You got some balls Doug! great review. Though I didnt care for Jack as the Joker I feel Ledger's death had a lot of impact on people calling him amazing and no one could play that role again. (believe me I have some dumb friends saying no one esle can play Joker now) My personal favorite Joker Has to be Mark Hammil from the Cartoon. Totally agree on the Keaton being the better Batman.

His death didn't effect my opinion at all. When I heard he was going to be the joker I was like "Uh... That guy from BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is going to be the Joker of all people?!" I was not pleased.

Ledger put all of his energy into the character. I've heard people tell that he spent so much time in the character that it was effecting his mental health. The character was amazing, original, dynamic.

The only thing I think people should be effected by his death is that they should stop dressing up like him (badly) and stop acting like him (badly). It just defames the character.

Ooh, the Critic tries out a new episode format. I'm highly intrigued and so far, it's a great "first episode" for such a concept.

I had a feeling original recipe "Batman" would win out because, well, you're the [i]Nostalgia[/i] Critic after all.

Yeah, Ledger!Joker totally had me hiding behind blankets every time he came onscreen and the torture clip? EEEK!!

Nice use of the Bale rant. ;) :P

Yeah, Doug's one of the few people to actually turn that rant into something coherent.

To be fair to Christain Bale, in Batman Begins there is a scene between him and Katie Holmes after the car chace where while he's talking to her his voice really isn't that bad at all. It's not over the top or very raspy so maybe if he used that voice for the majority of the movie it wouldn't seem as bad.