watching this makes me want to watch Secret of NIMH...

Funny, makes me feel like hunting down all the DVD/VHS copies of NIMH2, its director and producers forcing the former down the latter's throats. Including the cases.

Though that's proabbly just me.

No, it's not just you. I, personally, will probably do both.

EDIT: On the subject of HP, at least in the books they acknowledged at one point (maybe movies, only watched them once each) that they were setting his expectations really high and messing him up. That doesn't stop Dumbledore from breaking all the rules in Harry's favor, though.

Don't worry about people hating on the commentaries, I (and I'm sure many others) love them! It's cool to see what goes on behind the scenes at TGWTG :)

Really love this commentaries, you should do some about your first reviews!

I actually think it's sometimes interesting to have a hero who's a jerk, but only if the movie recognizes that he's supposed to have flaws. Not if the movie makes him out to be this perfect being he's not. I like Heathcliff type characters, ones you aren't sure if you are supposed to like or not.

One of my favorite lines out of this review was the "What did he think his father saved them from, the Nazis?" I thought it was a subtle Maus reference, though it probably just a clever coincidence.

Maus... now there's a comic that would be AMAZING given a classic Don Bluth treatment. It'd be the Schindler's List of animation. Damn, that would blow some minds.

Yeah...too bad Spiegelman has said he doesn't want to. It'd seriously make people respect animation more.

I think Marjane Satrapi, who herself has known war, and whose own country, Iran, killed off virtually all its surviving Jews during the Iraq-Iran war, would be a good collaborator. Especially when you compare how well she and Spiegelman both use simple black-and-white geometric drawings.

Oh, yeah, that Persepolis comic was great. Haven't seen the film adaptation yet, though.

I saw it. It was pretty odd. I liked the comic better.

I too thought that while the film better, the comic had more heart. A lot of the supporting characters in Marjane's comic either didn't make it into the film (such as Marjane's very young, illiterate au pair Mehri, and her Jewish friend) or suffered character derailment (her Viennese boyfriend and her ex-husband were MUCH more sympathetic characters in the comic).

I thought Grave of the Fireflies was the Schindler's List of animation...

Given the stories of Mormons risking their lives to save Jewish people, often becoming victims of the Nazis themselves or those that worked in resistance movements like Karl-Heinz Schnibbe?

I'd say that a Mormon (generally speaking) would have a deep respect for the Jewish people.

That reminds me, I still need to get Maus. Damn this whole "not enough money" thing.

And I already have plans to get Stephen King's IT next week! Curse The Nostalgia Critic adding to my reading list that I can't quite afford yet!

Try finding the book at your local library.

Hee hee, reading. Free entertainment since the year 3000 BC.

"Kids, reading opens up a rainbow of possibilities and whimsy and wonder and magic..."

And then Martin became British.

I honestly think it's a decent twist, but the way it's done is....eeeeeeeeh.

This commentary makes me want to go on the forums more.

A Robot Chicken joke would have actually been refreshing.

I remember reading the book the film was based on in school, and it said that her name was "Mrs Frisby" They are says 'Brisby' in these two films right?

And there IS a better sequel out there, it has Timmy in it, but it's about a Rat who comes from the city, his name is Rasco and in a quote from Wikipedia:
"In Racso and the Rats of NIMH, the Rats of NIMH have developed a self-sustaining community in Thorn Valley, where they are completely isolated from humanity. Timothy Frisby, the youngest son of Mrs. Frisby, travels from his family's home to Thorn Valley. (Although his mother is an ordinary mouse, Timothy has inherited the extremely high intellect and long lifespan of his father, NIMH escapee Jonathan.) During his trip, Timothy meets Racso, the son of Jenner (a rat of NIMH introduced in first book who is widely considered to be a traitor). Timothy and Racso arrive at Thorn Valley, but while Timothy integrates and begins receiving the same accelerated education as the rat children, Racso, coming from a colony of savage urban rats, has trouble adjusting to life in a cultured town of rodents. Racso is also burdened by his family history, as his father deserted the rats' previous colony, placing them in danger of extinction. Life in Thorn Valley is suddenly threatened when humans begin planning to build a dam there, flooding the entire area. Racso, Timothy, and the entire rat colony must observe and sabotage the dam construction before the valley is underwater."

THAT would have made a MUCH better film, and I LOVED the book as a child, damn these people for not paying attention to the literary works! They had a perfectly adequate sequel RIGHT HERE!!!! Grrr!

I liked those books, too! There are several of them, as I recall. I don't remember them all THAT well but I remember there was a human girl and her little brother involved... the girls name was Meg, I think... I remember liking them, at least the girl had some really interesting character development.

That sounds like A Wrinkle in Time.

Yeah, in the books, the family was called Frisby. Reportedly, when they made the first movie, they were concerned about getting sued by the Frisbee company, so they redubbed the "Br" sound at the beginning of each mention of the name after all the dialogue had been recorded.

Which seems ridiculously excessive.

Seriously? O_O Oh for the love of...

To be honest, I really didn't like the sequel. It was written by a different person, and although I don't have a problem with that (fanboy that I am), it just didn't feel the same compared to it. The plot was a little weak, too.
Plus, it was kind of jarring to see them like actual rats, from a human perspective.

It still would have been better than this drivel, though. (PS: Hey rats! Even though this is in a national park, people can still see your giant concentric rings around the tree from the air!)

It was originally Frisby in the movies too, but the movie makers changed it in case of a lawsuit from whoever makes Frisbees.

You and your brother are amazing!!!! Please revisit The Room!!!!

Hah, I got a mention in the commentary. I asked Rob about selling the 'Timmy and the Brain' song and he gave the same response.

Maybe just give it out for free instead of selling it? *Wink*

always funny to see one of these.

I love commentaries. A lot. So... yeah, STOP APOLOGIZING, DOUG. ;)

I agree this review did get a LOT of hype for a long time before it came out. I played it up, too, but really it was all for fun. I do honestly think this is a deplorable, childhood-raping anus of a film, but hey... that's me. I don't watch NC episodes because I expect to AGREE with them. If I thought it could be done better, I'd do it myself. :P

Rob, I had to look up Mrs. Brisby's original voice actress after you said that. That was... incredibly depressing. I counter with two words: Judith Barsi. Nobody google that if you value your soul, because it WILL kill a small part of you.

Anyway... awesome commentary and wow, cannot WAIT for the DVD! :o


(Also, the "cricket?" remarks reminds me... my 3-year-old has started asking to watch the "Nostalgia Cricket." Cutest. Thing. Ever.)

I had the displeasure of recently finding out about Judith Barsi (better known as Ducky from Land Before Time, and Anne-Marie from All Dogs go to Heaven. Now people are going "ohhh!...uh oh"). So when I heard them talking about Brisby's voice actress, I was immediately thinking of Barsi and thought "wait, does that mean TWO Bluth-Actresses had horrible stories?"

In fact...I might as well look it up. If I don't now, it'll just pester me in the back of my mind until I do. This is gonna suck, isn't it?

...yeah, I'm seeing bit of a curse here for some Bluth actresses.

....... Damn it, NEVER say "don't google". Although I guess that makes it the poor curious idiot's fault. X___X Curious idiot like me.

*SOB* Damnit, now I can never watch Land Before Time again. As if the movie wasn't depressing ENOUGH as it was already.

Commentaries are all well and good but I reeealllyy wanna see commentaries of the commentaries. Like have Spoony do some commentaries of your commentaries. That would be epic. SO then 15 years from now the NC critic can do a commentary of Spoonies commentary of your commentary.

I don't think so. I imagine unintelligible audio would be the result.

Lol,this makes extra happy that I never had to watch NIMH 2!!! Thanks Doug!!! xD

Great commentary aswell!!!

And reading asshole comments like yours fucking kills brain cells.

Wtf, I didn't even notice.

Have you ever had a cold? It's not that simple!

I love your commentaries! Truly. Don't apologise!

Are there Potter fans that love the books but hate the movies? Also I'd argue that unlike Timmy, Potter endures even more crap than praise, not to mention that he spends the first 11 years of life ignorant of everything.

Speaking for myself about the expectations of this review -- I was expecting a harsh reaction due to that they took a brilliant movie in the first one and decided to not only make it a dumb sequel but an exceptionally stupid MUSICAL sequel.

I'm a Potter fan who likes the books and is not too fond of the movies, why?

Critic was talking about the reaction of Potter fans and was basing it off the films. I was wondering if the critics were relying on film cannon or if there was a difference between people who judge others by the standards of the books or movies.

That being said, it may have just been a misspeak and I am looking too far into this. The films just don't convey the nuance as effectively as the books do (with the exception of Imelda Staunton who is terrific in her role).

I don't know who that is, but I do agree than ANY opinion on anything that has to do with Harry Potter should NOT be based solely on the movies. the movies do not tell the story nearly as well as the book.

No, he did turn out to be a jerk, but he did do something, not, die...ok...ok...good point...but...you still ripped to far into it...ok...ok...ummm....ye ahhh...

I actually would like to rewrite this and redo this that makes more sense. It'd still be essentially the same, but I'd fix the major problems, like, it'll still have the twist ending, but Martin originally got a shot but then he goes missing and everyone insist he'll be useless until he's trained, and such. I think that's the #1 problem with this sequel is it could have been handled better.

Of people who should have Statues in addition to Jonathon and Timmy:

Mrs Brisby - For saving the rats of NIMH.
Nicodemus - For being awesome... oh and having special prophecy powers.
Jenny - For doing more in half a movie then Timmy did in most of the movie.
AND MARTIN - If he hadn't turned all the scientists into dogs, they'd still be worrying about NIMH. HE'S the real hero when you look at it all.

Heh, that's another thing I hate about this flick. The scientists of NIMH were a genuinely scary presence in the first movie. The second one reduces that dark, looming menace to about the same villain-level as Bebop and Rocksteady of TMNT. That's right, they don't even make Shredder level.

All of NIMH taken out by a single psycho mouse, how shameful.

By the way, it was Ollivander (the guy who ran the wand shop) who said that great things could be expected from Harry Potter, not Dumbledore. However, Ollivander is rather creepy. But anyway, you guys should do more commentaries!!!! I actually enjoy them. And I would like to see more riffs in the near future!!!! You are both very funny brothers and you have so much comedic genius when you are paired together. Please keep that dynamic going as long as you possibly can!!!!!

I love your commentaries! They're great to listen to.

Awesome-sauce

harry potter fans are snobbish and rude if you don't even like the books
or movies.
and thats turns me off to the books

i loved the review i watched alot more times than neverending story 3
i love the timmy and the brain xD it killed me and there are clips on youtube about it
man you guys rock hope that you don't stop any time soon=D

Way to make ignorant, sweeping generalizations based on what people watch and/or read! You deserve a cookie.

Why the hell was Martin dressed as the villain from Teddy Ruxpin? O_o

Because every stock villain has to have a wizard-like Tweeg Cloak.

...Teddy Ruxpin was my first-ever childhood favorite, and is a guilty pleasure (for satirical nostalgia purposes of course) to this day. Come to think of it, Ruxpin would be quite fun to see Doug do some day. Would make a good future Raiders of the Lost Story Arc episode.

I will say this for all the NC fans, the commentary is awesome

I really enjoy hearing the commentaries, actually. For some reason, they really help cheer me up when I'm having a crappy time like I've been lately.

I'm actually with Rob on this one; haing the brother go nuts and starting a hostile takeover would have been an awesome twist, if it was executed better. For example, say, instead of him just slinging a conveniently placed electrode helmet over the head scientist's, well, head, the brother gets out of his cage and rewires a much of machinery while the scientists are doing experiments, thus incapacitating them. Would that have saved the movie? Most definately not, but it couldn't have hurt. I actually really like the idea, though, of the brother turning out to be a villain. Would have seemed less like it came out of nowhere if he didn't dissapear after the first act and was never mentioned again, though.

I just realized how much of a Ren & Stimpy fan I am. I didn't miss a beat when I joined in with "I told you I'd shoot! But y'didn't believe me! WHY didn't you believe me!?".

I don't know how I caught it so fast!

And yeah, when I saw this review and it got to the "Candy Cheese" part, I was surprised Doug didn't say a word about it, because that's just so...that's not something you can just ignore when you hear it, but I eventually just let it go due to the fact that the total mind-fuck from the whole Martin thing took on all my attention.

And if Harry Potter fans actually got upset, ehhhh...they have to wake up and just accept it, and I'm speaking as someone who's read all the books and seen the early movies, Doug had a point with the comparison.

In fact, Harry Potter is so forced into importance, that his NAME is the title of the whole friggin' franchise. It all revolves around him, he's a living focal point. In fact, it's that kind of forced importance that steered me away from Harry Potter and more toward Neil Gaiman stories.

But anyway, all this is why I enjoy these commentaries. I get more jokes, behind the scenes information, stories about fan reactions, missed or lost jokes, it's fun and informative!

It's kind of like the Commentary to Conan the Barbarian (if anyone hasn't seen/heard it, watch it, it turns the movie into a friggin' comedy!)

I love the random quoting from "Happy Happy Joy Joy" (and/or The Big Country) in the middle of the commentary. It's always great to hear Doug and Rob riffing off each other.

this review made me want to see the original movie. is it worth the 20 bucks to buy it or should i see if i can rent it on netflix?

Buy it. It's worth it.

It's so freakin' worth it. There's a reason this one is an enduring classic for many people and why their love for it survives into adulthood; because it's one of those rare animated films that's acceptable for children, but is probably even better for adults because they can appreciate the art and serious tones of the film better.

The child in the audience is drawn in by the magic and fantasy of it all, and the adult in the audience keeps on loving it because it can always be taken seriously, and the film respected the audience by not *treating* them like children.

In fact, it's that seriousness that probably made the film fall into obscurity among today's generations (which is absolutely heart-breaking to just about anyone from the 80's). Today's kids are too soft and overly protected, so their cartoons are all happy-happy luv-luv rainbows and gumdrops and dare I say it, candies all made of cheese.

The original NIMH is something you watch today and think "...KIDS were watching this movie? And nobody had a problem with it?!", but again, that's just the sheltered softness of modern day. It's because of movies like NIMH and many others by Bluth that prevented us 80's kids from being oversensitive and weak-minded wimps.

It was the Anti-Disney. Think of NIMH as a much, much, much much better version of The Black Cauldron...which came 3 years after NIMH, and was probably Disney's attempt to mimic it's darker tone. They didn't succeed!

But if you want to play it safe, rent it, and if you like it enough, buy it. No matter what, you can't lose.

thank you both. if i get around to it ill buy it. money's just a little tight for me right now but when i bounce back, its on my list of stuff to buy.

It's definitely worth the watching. It's one of those rare movies that can make you bawl your eyes out one minute and give you the warm and fuzzies the next without ever coming off as forced or manipulative. A very genuine experience, this one.

Definitely worth a buy. It's one of a handful of movies from my youngsterhood that's even better as an adult.

Don't worry, Doug. As I said, there's a FUCKton of fanfiction for you to find out about the rest of the family.

I'd recommend starting at the webring from here:
http:// www.thornvalley.com/
Y'know, if you're interested.

Also, sorry for all the comments, but you know...the worst part of it is, I think the writers actually read the book. They refer to the mice as "The Lost Six", instead of the NINE they were in the movie (11-2=9). And the older Mrs. Brisby? Explained in the book as since her kids had part of Jonathan's DNA, they'd live longer and age less, but she wouldn't.

One: basically, every prophecy is self fulfilling. Take greek mythology for example. Every time people heard a prophecy (which were mostly bad for the one who heard it), they would take steps to prevent it from happening and, therefore, would create a scenario where the prophecy is certain to happen.

Second: Harry (Yeah, I'm gonna bring that up too. Sorry.) did not get treated as a child prodigy by Hogwarts. He was pretty much treated like any other student there. But, because of the event that gave him his scar, he is famous among the wizard community an treated differently by most people.

Great commentary, as always, awesome job with Carebears 2 and can't wait for the next one.

As in that which you didn't do?! Cassandra was a prophet, but Apollo cursed her so no one would believe her predictions. There are variations, of course, but that's pretty much it when it comes to her prophecies. Nostradamus do not apply, as I was talking about the kind of prediction made by Nicodemus, that is to say those of magical origin. The Bible... The least I talk about it, the better.
Please, if you're going to criticize me, at least do it right.

This is, of course, assuming that Nicodemus made any such prophecy. Which he totally didn't.

Yes, yes. You're right. I'm sorry. XD
But he seemed quite magical to me and, according to the critic, predicted some things, right?

"One: basically, every prophecy is self fulfilling. Take greek mythology for example. Every time people heard a prophecy (which were mostly bad for the one who heard it), they would take steps to prevent it from happening and, therefore, would create a scenario where the prophecy is certain to happen."

The point, which mysteriously eludes your grasp, is that you have made a sweeping generalization regarding all prophecies. Read that. ALL prophecies. This is laughable, and undermines you.

The point. You missed it. I laugh heartily. =)

Again, I request that you get an education please.

Not really. There is a difference between a personal prophecy (an event which affects and centers on individuals) and widespread or global prophecy (which affects a large number of people).

Personal prophecy CAN be self-fulfilling, but in other cases (such as in Mesopotamian lore or Chinese lore) a person can fight against destiny and change their future for better or worse. In this way, such prophecies are not so much self-fulfilling but rather a warning about events that COULD occur.

Global prophecy is often a result of events outside of mortal ken and are usually beyond anyone to stop, meaning the confrontation is not with destiny but with surviving or reacting to the event itself. As such global prophecy cannot be self-fulfilling since they are beyond a person's ability to affect their arrival.

Boy, I never thought I'd have to use that information again...