Shorts! Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs

(310 votes, average 4.87 out of 5)
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Comments (190)
  • crispymattastic
    great informative vid,looking forward to more.
  • RARBARGH
    I think there are those who'd say that drawn animation peaked some time in the sixties, and it's been downhill ever since. I'm pretty sure they make up a good chunk of the people who praise this one.
  • fanime1
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    My thoughts exactly.

    As for the review, I have to ask, why do animation historians consider this a masterpiece, again? I'm sure they have a reason. You may not agree with it, but I'd still like to know. Maybe you said it and I missed it or something, but I don't remember you saying it. I haven't seen this cartoon, so I wouldn't know myself. I wonder if I should, just for curiosity sake. Though the Cotton Gin and Japan jokes pissed me off.
  • MartyLight  - Objective/Subjective
    I already posted this on here somewhere's, but I thought you'd like to know the reasoning.

    As an History student, something that has always bothered me is the misconception of film historians. We don`t analyses movies, books, short stories the same way a film student would. It`s just not applicable. The films film historians love and praise aren't to be measured the same as someone like NChick who has a film studies background.

    In the simplest way I can explain it. We analyses a film in the most objective way possible. A historian isn't supposed to take any stance whatsoever. NChick keeps mentioning that it isn't good or it doesn't have value anymore. Sure, in your subjective analysis that's fine. But in the objective sense, we as historians ask ourselves the source question of all history, especially when talking about a primary source like this short film, ''Why is this important to its time''?

    This short is such a window in the mentality. Films and cartoons are often a great way of analyzing popular mentality .Films like this and Birth of a Nation are so fucking easy and fun to analyze. There's no hidden intent, yet it is so contrary to reality. It doesn't mesh or it does mesh so well with what he know of the period. These films are literally OOZING from every crack with historical value.

    TL;DR : Historians analyze objectively, NC analyses subjectively.
  • Alex Ames
    Salvery jokes are never funny. Espeically id you live in the south.
  • Stick92
    I wholeheartedly disagree. Anything can be funny if done properly.
  • The Battousai
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    Funny how no one can actually describe how to do such a thing "properly."
  • thelaughingfool
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    Well, you could always go by the Lewis Black standard.
    "Can't talk about rape, rape's not funny. I say 'Fuck You', I think it's hilarious, how do you like that?"

    As to this... thing, I actually think you give it too little credit. I remember reading commentary about it and one of the things that makes me laugh about it is that the makers of this... thing claim to have done extensive research on the subjects of Jazz and Jive. Did they get it right? Well, sort of yes and sort of no. As I understand this is one of the first widely released cartoons to feature actual "colored" music in it, and that was a big deal at the time. Now, is it racist? Sure it is, because it's creators were racists. Hell, Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator, was a racist. I don't judge people too harshly when they don't have the benefit of living in our modern society where we have Tyler Perry and 50 Cent to teach us that African Americans have the exact same culture and mannerisms that we Caucasians do. Because like you said, we as Americans are done with Racism.
  • CyborgPrince
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    I think you confused Lewis Black with George Carlin, but hey, both guys are pretty funny.
  • THOOM
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    What are you getting at with the Tyler Perry and 50 Cent comment? Blacks do have the exact same culture as white people. We live in a mostly Christian country, have the same shitty fast food restaurants, movies and television shoved at us. And I have met (but not befriended) plenty of white people who talk and have the mannerisms Tyler Perry and try to dress and act like 50 Cent.
  • thelaughingfool
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    There are plenty of white people in this country that act like black people, and they're considered a joke by both groups.
    This actually reminds me of a letter to the editor written for my High School newspaper once. The author was proposing that the institution of Black History Month (February) was a racist holiday. And he was right. It is a racist holiday. He went on to talk about how Martian Luther King wanted people to be colorblind. That if you saw a black man and a white man walking together, you wouldn't think twice about it, or at least any more than if you saw two white men walking together. MLK didn't want the African Americans to stand out as a race, but to be accepted by everyone equally.
    And as I said, this cartoon is racist. But by the standards of the time, it wasn't as bad as we think it is. If someone made a cartoon like this today, I think every civilized person would react with disgust, and rightly so. But since it was made when it was, we can look at it with some level of insensitivity because we know we wouldn't do stuff like this today.
  • AphexTwin Fan  - Hmm.....
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    I understand your point about the very idea of Black History Month being racist, but I think the idea of it is to reserve a certain time of the year to bring awareness to African American issues. Reason being that, even though we as a nation are becoming less and less racist, and are slowly losing our reservations toward each other, Afro Americans, among other minorities, still remain somewhat marginalized in our society - to this day.

    Believe it or not, as much as I wish racism/discrimination was over in the United States, it is still somewhat of an issue. But that's to be expected, when you have many people of different ethnicities, skin color, creeds, or sexual orientation, sharing a common land or nation.

    The point is to find solutions that can possibly curb the problem, and Black History Month and MLK day - whether they work or not - were established to attempt solving that problem.
  • Daemian Lucifer
    Its simple really:Start with yourself,and stuff that were tragic for you.If you can make fun of those,you can make fun of everything.Well,ok,the explanation is simple,but to actually do that can be really hard.
  • Lieju  - Slavery jokes
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    Well, you could make a sketch where the slave-owners are all going 'our slaves are happy, they wouldn't even want to be free', and then show the slaves in really exaggeratingly bad conditions.

    Whether this would be funny, of course, would depend on the execution, and ultimately, your sense of humor, but it depends on who the joke is on if it's okay.

    For example, make fun of the slave owners making excuses for why slavery is okay (if you ask me), or historical revisionism and idealising slavery.

    I have had people tell me slavery was a part of god's plan to get the black people to turn to Christ. People like that deserve to be mocked.

    If you on the other hand make a joke about how black people were just dumb and that's why they were enslaved, that's racist.

    As for the slavery joke in this, maybe I don't fully get it, but it seems to basically be 'slavery existed', which is only funny if you consider slavery to be funny. Or maybe that a black person likes something that has a same name as something related to slavery? It kinda is a non-joke, just a random reference to slavery thrown in there.
  • Blackskies  - .
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    Blazing Saddles was pretty funny, and that was all about race.
  • cvrpapc
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    I mean...i know i shouldn't laugh...but i did. I'm sorry. But how can you say anything has changed. Look at the movies out today. Medea...barbership...lott ery ticket? How are those not as bad if not worse than this.

    Anyways...you missed chatnooga-choo choo...pretty bad also.
  • Baby Hitler
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    But weren't those made by black creators? This cartoon may have used some black voice actors but everyone else working on it was white. Any negative impact the Tyler Perry movies (not that they have any) or any other productions would run contrary to the current norm. But this cartoon falls right into the racist ideology of the time which most white people held and was even internalized by the black community. If someone tells you your whole life that you are naturally inferior and less important, it'd be damned hard to overcome all that to see yourself as independent from the qualities society identifies you as having.
  • keniakittykat
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    I never knew this existed xD I love your informative shorts video's!
  • Maverick Zero
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    Great video! Still shocks me to this day that these animated shorts even existed.
  • Hakajin
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    Good commentary. But do people honestly not get the difference between the humor in "Blazing Saddles" and the humor here? I mean, even if you can't articulate it all that well, it's pretty obvious that the point of the humor in the latter was to show how stupid the stereotypes were.

    Anyway. Awful things can definitely have artistic merit, but it sounds like this doesn't. Although it works as a relic of past attitudes.

    As for politically incorrect things being used as a way to oppress in disguise... that's often the case, but not always. I think most often, with White people, it's a rebellion against always feeling like the bad guy all the time, and feeling like you're walking on pins and needles all the time. You really do feel repressed, especially since you feel like you're not supposed to talk about your opinions or feelings on race. I've felt that plenty of times, though I don't react that way... Also, sometimes PC stuff is just a cop-out, a way for people to feel better. For example, Sherman Alexie, famed Indian writer, hates the term "Native American;" he says it doesn't mean anything. I kind of agree... though I think most people who use it just do so because they'd rather not have conflict over it. But this is not like that, anyway.

    Also... I didn't even get the cotton gin joke. I understand what the implications should be, but I'm not sure how it relates to... ooooooh, gin as in the alcohol! ...Somehow I was expecting it to be a joke about it putting Black people out of work/taking away their purpose and/or making them lazy.
  • Meraxes
    White people wouldn't be walking on pins and needles if they didn't hold racist ideas in the first place. Yeah, it's not your fault if you have racist ideals, but it's better to just realize how wrong you are and correct that than go through life being bitter and hateful towards other races.

    Lindsay pointed this out in the review she did for Reality Bites: privileged people do not like introspection. So instead of thinking "I'm wrong for thinking this way" they blame others for having to walk on pins and needles.

    It's fine to talk about your opinions, but you're going to be criticized if people think you're wrong and you have to deal with that.
  • trlkly
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    And you just proved his point. He didn't say anything racist in his post. But you just called him racist because he cares about not being perceived as such. That's exactly the problem. Just because you aren't racist doesn't mean some people won't see you as such, so you have to be extra careful in what you say. It has nothing to do with me as an individual being racist, but the fact that white people IN GENERAL were racist, so now that's our lot in life. Being thought of as racist is such a bad thing that we now have to overcompensate, and that can get frustrating.

    And white privilege is a bullshit way of looking at things. Whites are not privileged. Other races are under-privileged. Calling it white privilege implies that the solution is to reduce our privilege. The solution is to increase the privilege until we match. For example, rather than making everyone afraid of white people being criminals, we need to make people not be so afraid of black people being criminals.

    Lindsay does have some interesting things to say on such subjects, but she's far from an absolute authority. She overcompensates for her own biases and gets overly offended about biases against. Not that this is unusual--that's what everyone does. But it does mean she can be wrong.

    And she's wrong here. People who complain about political correctness do have a point. PC is only sometimes used to justify bigotry. Not always. Sometimes it really does refer to certain groups being overly offendable. Or, more often, it refers to people being overly offended for that group when that group doesn't find it offensive.

    (Like the whole Native American or African American thing. The real people prefer to be called [American] Indians and Black people.)
  • Hakajin
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    That's it sometimes, but there's a lot more to it. Like... White people are really uncomfortable talking about race, period. I did a research paper on White guilt/defensiveness, and I remember this one kid who said he didn't know that Black people could get sun-burnt, and got "totally jumped on." Now, you could blame him for not knowing in the first place, but it's easy to imagine that the reason he didn't was because he was afraid to ask. I've definitely felt that. White people have this culture of sameness, and we feel like it's offensive to notice cultural differences, even neutral ones.

    Then there's humor like in "Blazing Saddles..." I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable watching that movie with some of my friends, even though the humor is meant to subvert stereotypes, not encourage them.

    And then there's just the fact that the trends change, at least when it comes to words. Sometimes you really don't know what you're supposed to say. And sometimes there really is no safe term, like the thing with Indian and Native American. Both will offend some people some of the time. You don't always know what's appropriate, and you're afraid to ask. Or... sometimes it's things that are hard to explain. I remember one time in my Race in Shakespeare class, we were reading a text where an African king was saying that his people were superior because they were the first men. Though this text pre-dated Darwin, I think, there was still the belief that Africans came first, and I was wondering if people at that time would have thought like those who came later, that White people were therefore more evolved. It felt like an offensive thing to ask, though, like people would think I supported that idea. Actually, it's uncomfortable mentioning it here, too.

    There are little things, too, like when I forget to hold the door for someone, if that person is a minority, I always wonder if they think it's because I'm racist. I don't assume they do, but I wonder.

    But I think the biggest thing is that race is such a taboo for White people. You feel like if you slip up once, or if someone takes something different from the way you meant it, that's it, you're branded, and that person's never going to look at you the same way. There are other things like that that don't involve race, but race is so personal...

    Privileged people are just as introspective as anyone else. But I think people in general aren't that introspective. A lot of privileged people have the exact opposite reaction- they assume that they're always in the wrong. And some people who aren't privileged can see the world in simpler terms, too- they assume that the other side is oblivious, when it's more complicated. I've experienced that from both sides- on the one hand, I've got White privilege, but on the other, my family is below the poverty line, and I've had run-ins and slights with various people because of that... Anyway, pa...
  • joelkazoo
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    GREAT review! Very informative.
  • L2
    >Racism.... is over.
    I love how you said that with the straightest face and with the biggest smile.

    Ironically enough, I saw those clips of Chappelle yesterday in my lecture class when talking about Prejudice.
  • Merklyn236
    Sometimes there seems to be an air of mystique associated with something that's so "offensive" it can never be shown to modern audiences, and that allows people to forget that the object in question just might not be that good. This definitely seems to be the case here, unless you cut out every single funny joke in the cartoon (which I doubt). It's treated as a some kind holy grail of cartoon history because you're not supposed to a-know it exists, and b-see it even if you know about it.

    I think we do better as a society to say "So, this happened" and let it be seen rather than to sweep it under the rug and do the "Nothing to see here" bit. That's why the "Censored 11" and "Song of the South" shouldn't be buried under the closet somewhere at their respective studios.

    One question though - if feminism has failed (Charlie's Angels review), and racism is over. What's left?
  • Carteeg_Struve
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    >One question though - if feminism has failed (Charlie's Angels review), and racism is over. What's left?

    Easy. Homosexuals and homophobes both.

    Them and fans of Twilight, but those bastards deserve it.



    __________
    In seriousness, I understand the error that was made in making this. It's racist, but they were trying to portray black people as likable and energetic.... even though they were also falling to the stereotypes and racism of the time. In short, I really think they just didn't truly knew any better and didn't think about how their medium could be better use. Combine that with some thoughtless bad humor, and this is what you get.

    I stand against political correctness in just about all of its forms, but there is a point where you just have to facepalm looking at something. I know what they were going for here. It's clear to an extent (propaganda part aside). It's supposed to be a black version of Snow White. This is a misfired conceptual ancestor to "The Wiz". And the concept can't just be "We'll run the same story while simply recasting the characters with black people" because... then you just have the same story. Hell, even "The Wiz" holds onto stereotypes.

    But the problem here is partially the medium of it being a slap-sticky cartoon. That is truthful. This is not an excuse for the end product, but it does show where the downfall comes about. In "The Wiz" it can take itself seriously from time to time, letting itself have some weight on matters.

    Here... no. They want it to be funny and fun! And so you get a slap-happy piece that makes fun of its changes as a source of humor, and thus the racial implications are not given the importance of the situation the context of the story puts itself in.

    Again, this doesn't excuse the piece; but I understand where it came from and can forgive anyone involved in the project who came to realize in the end how they screwed up.

    So let's all celebrate now that racism is over!

    ...

    But seriously, I don't care what skin color he or she has - how about we get a president who just doesn't suck? Come on. It's been over 20 years now.
  • AceTygra82
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    Umm how is a guy who brought us into a surplus (Clinton) considered a prez who sucks?! While a guy who ran up one of the largest deficits and traded arms for hostages(Reagan) considered a hero?
  • Sewblon
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    Not sure about the former claim. But many people attribute the end of the stagflation of the 1970s and the end of the cold war to Ronald Reagan's actions as president, at least in part.
  • RARBARGH
    On topic: the guy who made the characters in your avatar is a huge fan of this short.
  • Hardin
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    @ Carteeg_Struve Homophobia is not a real thing, it's merely a passive-aggressive term used by petty homosexuals and their sympathizers to undermine and demean those who dislike them.
    I'm all for gay marriage but I find that particular term aggravating.
  • Sewblon
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    Although I agree with you that "homophobia" is a misnomer. I also think that most of those who use it in public discourse have noble intentions. It is not a result of pettiness or meanness, but rather a result of passionate people naming what they oppose in a rhetorically expedient fashion.
  • AceTygra82
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    As a so called "Petty Homosexual" its very simple! If I am going to be treated like a 2nd class citizen then I should not have to pay 1st class taxes!
  • Sewblon
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    what do you mean by "first class taxes"?
  • ToruKun1
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    Wow, you're an asshole. "Petty homosexuals"? Why shouldn't homophobes be demeaned and dismissed?
  • trlkly
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    Homophobia is not a misnomer. You just don't understand what -phobia means. It doesn't necessarily mean fear. A hydrophobic organism isn't afraid of water, they just shun it. And homophobes shun homosexuals.

    Though, honestly, there really is a fear component to the subject, like people being afraid that allowing homosexual to marry will result in the downfall of civilization, or being afraid of any small urges of attraction they feel for someone of the same sex, choosing to assume that the problem is with the other people TRYING to attract them. Plus there's the fear of being penetrated. There is fear involved.

    BTW, if you use the term homosexual sympathizers, you identify yourself as being against the concept. People don't refer to others as sympathizers unless they are on the other side. If you truly do not believe you are a homophobe, I'd suggest not using that term.

    Think about it: if I referred to people against slavery as "black sympathizers," what would you think of me?
  • JamiSings  - @Merlyn
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    "One question though - if feminism has failed (Charlie's Angels review), and racism is over. What's left?"

    Bigotry against fat people. Nevermind not everyone is fat due to over eating/lack of exercise. (Medications, thyroid problems, Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, and allergies can all lead to severe weight problems too.) Nope, we're all just lazy monsters. Even at 36 I still get bullied - by people older than me. Because I must be a bad person because I'm fat!

    Heck, my mom's 69 and she's still treated badly too. She's handicapped due to major back surgery for spinal stenosis and cysts inside her spinal cord and when she's in her wheelchair people will comment she's "only in there because she's fat and lazy", act like she's less than human. Heck, one time a couple actually THREW things at mom's legs to see if she could move them.

    Obviously racism isn't over. But other types of hatred are coming more to the forefront and are more acceptable now adays. And frankly hatred at any group - unless that group is a bunch of pedophiles - is stupid!
  • junebug_nery
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    I agree. There's a difference between encouraging everyone (i.e. no matter what their body type) to eat healthy/exercise/ blahblahblah, vs. assuming that all people who look a certain way have the same reasons/backgrounds/etc.

    And wow. Those people who threw stuff at your mom? Are total assholes.
  • JamiSings
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    That's what I keep trying to point out to people. I don't like being fat, I've been on all sorts of diets, pills, exercise programs, etc and the weight just doesn't come off. I'm getting treatment for my PCOS, but I also have allergies to deal with and self esteem issues from being bullied from childhood well into adulthood and assaulted by a group of boys when I was younger. It all adds up.

    Yet my blood pressure is always very good. Only time it's been high has been when I've been on certain medications. While the PCOS means I have an increased risk for diabetes, my blood sugars are always well within normal range. My cholesterol is great. Being a trained vocalist, while I obviously do get short of breath sooner than people thinner than me, I don't get as short as fast as most people would think and can go an hour or more at a steady pace on a treadmill.

    I just can't ride a bike uphill. I have to walk it. But I know thin people who have trouble riding a bike on a completely flat surface.

    And yes, the people who threw things at mom are assholes.

    I wish people would learn to judge people based on their personality and morals, not on their looks.
  • Rhodoferax
    Slavery? I would have thought that the genocide of the Native Americans was a greater blight.
  • Carteeg_Struve
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    Nah. 'Most' of that happened before the country was formed. We can shovel that over to the Europeans.
  • Mr.Anderssson
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    About 90% or so of the Native American wipeout was due to disease long before colonists even had a presence on the eastern seaboard. True, the ensuing wars with native armericans was nothing to be proud of, but their civilization had already reached the apocalyptic stage by that point.
  • Floweramon
    But the disease was the fault of the European settlers to begin with. They traded diseased blankets with them knowing that the diseases of Europe were new and not something the Native American's had any biological defense for. That's why there was such a sudden 90% wipeout of the population, some journals from European settlers of the time even mention how they intentionally spread disease among the Native Americans.
  • JamiSings
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    Not all diseases were brought over by the colonists. In fact, the one Columbus often gets blamed for, syphilis, was around LONG before he sailed the ocean blue. Let's not forget that the Vikings were in the Americas long before then and likely brought a few germs over.
  • joek86  - no no noooo...
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    Not only is your figure wrong, but you're omitting the fact that the diseases were brought over with the colonists. The colonists would also intentionally spread disease among natives so you can't really leave those numbers out from the count either. Never mind the fact that the colonist wee technically invading land they had no right to.
  • Papallion
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    I remember watching those on a bootleg video tape in the 80s. I don't know where they got it, but they were pretty poor quality. I remember thinking they were mean and for the most part boring.

    I thought the prince's walk when he got out of the car and watching the queen eat bonbons was funny. Not because they're black, but because of the motions; it's funny to see a guy move like that. I do wonder now... is that just a visual gag or is that making fun of a type of dance? And the queen, now that I'm older and understand more racist jokes, the bonbon-lips joke isn't as funny any more.
  • armagod679
    It's always interesting looking at this sort of cartoon, even if it's not very good and offensive by modern standards. It makes us take a good, hard look at ourselves and our history and reflect on how times change, along with what's acceptable in society.

    That's a lot of what I like about your reviews. I notice a lot of other contributors on this site don't like to address controversial or uncomfortable topics, but you whole-heartedly embrace them and educate us about them. I really appreciate this type of video and encourage you to keep making them.
  • Principal Snyder
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    Racism is over? Huh. I learn something new every day...
  • Mr.Anderssson
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    "Racism is Over"

    Half the people in the audience just said "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED".
  • ToruKun1
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    Half the people in the audience didn't get the joke, then.
  • Level7Gretchen
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    Nice piece, I love the shorts videos. As for 'the short wasn't made to be racist' I think that the boat has sailed on that one. That little thing of 'Eli Whiteney's Cotton Gin' was the last straw. To even put that horrific event within miles of a joke is egregious. That was done on purpose.
  • THOOM
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    Agreed Gretchen. But the "caricatures" and exaggerated mannerisms of the "black folk" in this cartoon with no regular black human beings being represented in this or any cartoon made by WB or Disney is all you need to prove this is a racist cartoon.
  • Manzarek
    I'm glad to hear that you don't consider this cartoon evil, Miss Ellis. I am forced to ask though, is racism evil? Whether so intentioned or not, this cartoon is easily labeled as such.

    If racism isn't evil, is it just misguided thinking then? I know the media (of which I am a member) and numerous folks in the African-American community would have folks believe racism is evil. In their eyes, this cartoon would be evil.

    That then begs the question, if a cartoon negatively stereotyping whites came out, would it be racist and, ergo, evil?
  • ToruKun1
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    Only a white person could theorize as to whether or not racism is evil (as if racism were just some abstract concept and not a tool of systemic oppression that causes people to be marginalized and murdered simply for existing while being not-white) and ask "ARE WHITE PEOPLE STEREOTYPES EVIL TOOOO!?!?!"
  • trlkly
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    Says the white person. What, you think it isn't obvious?

    Oh, wait, do you hate your argument being dismissed because of your race. Then don't do it to other people. If racism is evil, then don't be racist.
  • serfky01  - Hmmmm...
    Is it too egotistical of me to suggest that the Nostalgia Chick might have picked this cartoon because, in her last review of Red Hot Riding Hood, I left a comment suggesting she look and Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs next?

    ...Yeah, I guess that is too egotistical.

    Either way, great review. However, though this film is obviously incredibly racist and horrible and deserves to be banned ("Japs Killed for Free!", "Eli Whitney's Cotton Gin"? All you need to see), the reason it IS significant is because the Jazz score is fabulous, the best music in any Warner bros short, with great animation to fit the music. It even used real jazz artists. Technically and musically it is a masterpiece. Sad it had to be so ridiculously racist.
  • trlkly
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    You were one of many.
  • Greycat R!
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    Nice one!

    I'm curious if you have seen "Coonskin" (by Ralph Bakshi) if you did, what are your thoughts on that in this context?
  • Captain Siberia
    I had many of the same complaints for the Youtube video "Beauty and the Beat," which many people surprisingly don't think is racist. Who cares if it was made by a black director? It's just reinforcing the same horrible stereotypes as a ton of other things out there. I was even talking about that (though not naming it) on Facebook last night: after so many people fought so hard so that black people could be seen in this country as having worth, it's sad when so many black "entertainers" choose to perpetuate the same ugly stereotypes of worthlessness.
  • ToruKun1
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    That's because racist stereotypes are the only things that sell...at least according to the ad executives (who are predominately white).

    It's why most rap music is such garbage, the record companies want their artists to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is mostly suburban white dudes who think this stuff is cool.
  • trlkly
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    Damn, you are an offensive person. You are part of the offenderati, the ones who look for things to be offended about, the one that both sides hate.

    Seriously, stop this shit. You aren't defending the poor little black people from discriminated against. It's offensive that you think you get to decide for them what is offensive.
  • moazeem88  - One minute in
    Dafuq did I just see?
  • thorondragon
    what the kuklux clan sees when they go to hell..... that and being forced to listen to martin luthor king's moving speech on equality.
  • zepolmas  - Uhmmmm,,, few things real quick
    1. WELCOME BACK! SO HAPPY!
    2. Who's defending this, or saying... anything about it?
    3. I thought I had another one but.... fuck all.
  • thorondragon
    i had to stop it when i saw snow white....... kay, this is gonna be fun, but it is gonna hurt....badly.
  • EmperorSam
    oh, nostalgia chick, you're back! phew, i was worried about you during that hell of a storm and i hope all is okay. in reference to this review, i could not agree more.
  • sunnyl  - Great Review
    One of the greatest of all time? I'd list this cartoon as one of the worst animations of all time.
  • lithiumgreen
    Oh, Bob Clampett and his need to outdo every animator at Termite Terrace while shamelessly ripping them off. Coal Black is a cartoon that ONLY Clampett could have made.
  • Dromedary Meat Cactus  - poorly argued commentary
    avatar
    This critique seems fairly confusing and uninformative given that the premise the reviewer sets out to argue against is that some people consider this cartoon "one of the greatest cartoons ever" and that "historians cream themselves over this shit," yet we're given not a single example of a historian or commentator praising the cartoon in those terms or any reasons why they say this, so The Nostalgia Chick is basically knocking over a straw man argument that is so vaguely presented we have no idea whom or what she's triumphing over with her presumably superior reasoning. If the reviewer presented actual arguments for the greatness of this cartoon and then argued forcefully against those specific arguments this commentary might actually be substantive, but with the paucity of information we are given, I am left scratching my head.
  • JoeCat  - Possible Answer:
    avatar
    I believe this video is in response to things like "The 50 Greatest Cartoons: As Selected by 1,000 Animation Professionals" by Jerry Beck.

    "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs" clocked in at #21 on the list. So this video is probably a rebuttal to those of the thousand animators polled who nominated this cartoon as one of the greatest ever.

    Hope that helps.
  • Dromedary Meat Cactus
    avatar
    Thanks. I appreciate the info, but wasn't making a request for examples for their own sake -- I could have Googled the title of the cartoon to find people who liked it. I was pointing out what I saw as a basic structural flaw in this video. It presents a very vague idea that the cartoon is too respected by some people without specifying why those people consider it so amazing.

    This cartoon is on the "Censored Eleven" list because it's been considered an embarrassment by its owners for decades. So if you're going to do a video about how it's supposedly unjustly praised it would seem important to explain why some people are willing to put their reputations on the line and risk being seen as racists for celebrating something so loaded with racially offensive imagery. They must have some reason.
  • JoeCat  - Good point.
    avatar
    Definitely agree with you there. The lack of citing sources in the video hurts the video's argument (just think how much source-citing we all had to do during our schooling years). Should have been included in the video, but hopefully Lindsay puts a note under the video or something for future viewers.

    After all, she could be responding to a completely different source than the book I suggested. If so, then we're still entirely in the dark to whom/what the video's argument is against.

    Sorry if I offended at all.
  • Dromedary Meat Cactus  - He he
    avatar
    No, no problem. When I initially replied I was overly sensitive and thought you were being confrontational, but then realized I was completely reading that into it and having my usual problems with getting worked up about nothing, and went back in and edited my reply to be less snarky (I hope). Both of your replies were cool. Thanks!
  • TragicGuineaPig
    avatar
    What's the difference between "Coal Black" and the way Michael Bay portrays African Americans?
  • Jegsimmons
    avatar
    a 7 dollar bag of coal.
  • ToruKun1
    avatar
    Michael Bay doesn't do animation, that's all really.
  • Moose75000  - The Censored 11!
    Awesome, you are doing one of the Censored 11 cartoon! I hope you do the rest, it would make my year!
  • Jegsimmons
    avatar
    This was a good review but you seemed to be playing it safe....as if you were apologizing for the film.
    if something like this comes up, go all out. if you hold back if just makes things awkward.
  • PrimatePunk
    She raises a few good points. I still really like this cartoon though. I've never really seen it as a master piece myself because there are a few Clampett cartoons that I do think are better/ Although I do find it somewhat ironic that she has an issue with the with stereotypes in of themselves as being the source of humor when she referenced Dave chappelle, the guy's humor is like 80 percent racial humor and stereotypes. I also have to say that some actual examples of animation historians "creaming themselves over this shit" to be slightly disrespectful, especially since there were no examples, I know Jerry Beck for one has had some nice things to say about this cartoon so it would of been nice to maybe do a bit more research or actually show us more. I also feel that giving Birth of a Nation a pass just because she's more into film making than cartooning is slightly biased. Maybe I'm overreacting, but that's just how I feel about the whole review.
  • Moogletosser
    Yeah, it's trash. But it is kind of funny that the people who made Birth of a Nation expected to be taken seriously. Anyone who isn't a total idiot knows they were lying about history.
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