Charlie's Angels

(332 votes, average 4.56 out of 5)
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Comments (634)
  • cdude13
    Great Review
  • DudeMan  - Yeah Feminism!!
    NChick, Since you bitch in every review about how women are portrayed in movies, you should do a video on how you would want them to be portrayed- Or at the very least, a video of the top films that you think portrays its female characters right according to your criteria.


    And btw:

    Nella in "sexy clothes"? I think I threw up in my mouth a little.....
  • 1kissbee
    Oh come on Nella looked hot!
  • stevieboy
    Agreed. If not for the burka's angels skit being so funny I might never have forgiven Linday for forcing Nella to change.
  • pomaflah
    It wasn't a real burka. Burkas cover your hair.
  • Grindell107
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    Wow DudeMan. Way to completely miss the point of the video with that comment. Jackass. BTW, she was smoking. Great Power Girl cosplay! I smiled when I recognized it.
  • snoofulus
    I don't find Nella attractive, and your comment made me throw up.
  • thorondragon
    smashes testicles with sledge hammer.

    yo udon't say shit like that dude.

    smashes them a second times........ then hears a fox talk to me about chaos reigning.
  • The Great Space Hobo
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    hey forget you I thought Nelle looked wonderful. Srsly I'm not just being "oh love woman for the way the are" kinda thing. I really think Nelle is very atrative in her own wonderful nerdy way and I love her for that. And as a pluse she has a very nice...um...windows clothes thing... ^///^

    Also I kinda like this movie, tis a guitly plasure. XD
  • Gift of the Magi
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    Ah, Power Girl's infamous "boob window"...and dear GODS Nella filled that to near-explosive capacity!
  • LuciusMadgloom  - Agreed
    NChick should get some variaty and Do more than just whine about bad portrayals... Show us good ones and state those are the ones to go girl.

    and sorry hate me for this but feminism is bullshit, cause true feminism isn't about equallity its about power.

    I'm a man and I actualy do hate when the sexy protagonist is an airhead(which those 3 basicly were).. but you know what women should try their best to look good, ok. Men are expected to be ripped models, all well dressed and clean shaved so why do we still get the drama about sexism? everybody is judged by thier looks. EVERYBODY..
    unless ppl realy get too know each other. A man will go for a hot chick and a woman will go for the ripped hunk, thats a fact. in this day and age faminism makes no sense cause both men and women are sexist.. example Women can have short or long hair and get any job they want. Man on the other hand will get any job only with short hair, but in most cases Long hair means nearly no job... yeah I know boohoo, haircuts.. but seriously who has it worse?? women can wear what ever the hell they want, and have nearly any type of hair cut.. but not men, the only options that for example an office worker has are colors of his suite, and by that I mean some gray or black..and women still whine over sexism.. kinda ironic don't you think?

    and Nella looked FREAKING HOT xP.. pardon me saying this but Epic Boobs you got there girl
  • whitechickbad
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    I'm pretty sure that isn't what "ironic" means, although that doesn't come anywhere near close to covering the piles of stupid in this comment.
  • Laxpolilla  - boo hoo
    All you're doing is complaining about "reverse sexism" and claiming it invalidated feminism. Which is does not, sorry for your poor poor life and your poor poor haircut.

    All you're doing is pointing out the long standing stereotypes that society expects from both sexes. Men traditionally (in our current society anyway) have short hair, and men with long hair are stereotyped as hippies, who are seen as unkempt, poor, and lazy. Is this stereotype true? Of course not, but it is a persisting stereotype that works against you. Women have the same problem: society dictates their worth by how they dress. Either we have to dress sexily to please men, or we are supposed to feel ashamed for dressing sexy because its our fault if men look at us.

    You just come off as a hypocrite for complaining that your plight means more than the female plight, when in reality it is the same scenario.
  • XSpectreGreyX
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    Well, her being hot wasn't the point.

    Oh, and with those saying she was... to each his own. Me? I cringed.
  • simsgirlgem
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    Hey I thought Nella was hot and yes I am a girl I just play for both teams
  • DudeMan  - Yeah Feminism 2!!!
    And the idea that in this day and age women are exploited victims when they have a choice what to wear, where to work, etc. Is ridiculous.

    Some women like to be celebrated and praised for their beauty as well and get paid a lot for it.

    NChick, all people must fill a niche life and the ugly ones like you rely on your brains.... Too bad the one thing you rely on isn't good enough to land you a better gig than over-analyzing old movies and sharing your feministic viewpoints citing examples from shitty movies that no one really watches nor remembers.
  • TheOnlyThing
    Yeah, they have a choice what to wear. They just get insulted by some person or another no matter what they choose. Yeah, they have a choice where to work. They just get paid less than men more often than not. They're not oppressed, they just can't fucking win.
  • DudeMan
    Paid More?

    Do Male strippers/bartenders make more than their Female counterparts? I think not.

    In the entertainment business, namely movie and television actors, successful Women make far more money than most American Females AND Males. If women were as noble and superior to men as they claim to be, they should be above squabbling over making a little less than male entertainers, despite living in comfort and getting to have a job doing essentially no hard honest work whatsoever.(not to mention when they marry their famous male counterparts, they have access to all his money anyways.)

    And if a movie role is too degrading for them after reading the script, they can turn down the money.... But that would mean that people would actually have to have a shred of Integrity within them.
  • Gift of the Magi
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    Female STRIPPERS AND PORNSTARS make more than their male counterparts. In other areas of entertainment, such as film, TV or music, the males still have an advantage...ESPECIALLY in writing, directing and producing.
  • itstheblueguy
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    Well if you'd pay the slightest bit of attention, you'd know that double standards against men and the idea that being "sexy" = empowering are exactly the kind of stuff Ellis is objecting to here.

    Whatever else is the case, it's a simple fact expectations and treatment of women are sometimes ignorant and unfair today. But now, instead of simply taking this out of the equation, media's attempts to play against it are usually petty, counterproductive portraits of "powerful" women that really just encourage condescending treatment. Charlie's Angels, in fact, just uses "empowerment" as a coverup to exploit its 3 leads and make a buck. Nostalgia Chick is against sexism, but she knows that when figures like Kesha or the Spice Girls try essentially the same thing in reverse, it's not much better.

    But since even those women are at least brave enough to publicly take a stance, instead of hurling cheap low blows and unsupported attacks from behind an anonymous avatar, I still have more respect for them than balls-less pricks like you.
  • whitechickbad
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    You are a misogynist and you don't know what you're talking about.
    Haha, marvel at my singular wit.
    If you're trying to be satirical, you should know that in order for something to be satirical, it has to have actual jokes, something to make it obvious that it's a parody. Think "Blazing Saddles" not "Epic Movie."
    On the off-chance that you're a troll, I feel like someone should tell you that you're not being clever. You're just being obnoxious and pathetic.
    I guess I'm no better for putting forth energy to get into a catty argument on an online forum with some twit I'll never meet in person, but sometimes you see something and you just can't take the high road.
  • phnxprmnt021
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    Hahaha, oh my god, that is the best MRA parody comment I've ever seen. Colbert-ian, even. I appreciate your going above and beyond asking Lindsay to get you a sandwich, although I feel like the ugly jokes were a little low for someone of your satirical caliber. Next time, why don't you try bringing up some other, more important/real causes besides the portrayal of women in media that Lindsay should be paying attention to, instead. People'll think you're way smart!

    Keep up the great work, DudeBro.
  • DudeMan
    It is nice to have a fan. FINALLY, Someone who understands the plight of the Ernest Hardworking Male being overshadowed by Women trying to emulate and be like Men while saying how they are different/better than they are at the same time.
  • ladydiskette  - My theory on internet and mysogony.
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    The thing is its all about respect and listening, not every woman is a feminist. They just expect men to be smart, considerate, civil, human beings. Which if a guy grows up in a well-adjusted enviroment who has been taught to treat people with kindness and consideration is easy for him.


    But if you take guys who have had issues with women stemming from child abuse by thier mother or a female member of the family, they will start growing up with a damaged psychological ego-driven self-confidence issue that all women that have even one subtle opinon on something like deciding what or where to go or what thier thought is on something will suddenly feel a loss of control and powerlessness. Which is where all the accusations of being "a opressed man" come from.


    That is where I always believed this modern day mysogony has come from. Men, who naturally may have had a violent abusive childhood by those of the opposite sex. Now are acting out irrationally. They don't have that teaching to be civil, respectful, and courteous in society.

    Which is why they always have to socialize on internet networks because of less public interaction.
  • Zoidzilla
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    I have trouble believing that every woman-hating MRA neckbeard on the internet has mommy issues.

    More likely than not the vast majority of them are products of the patriarchal culture we all grow up in, which dictates that men are the lords of the universe and women should endeavor to curry men's favor at all times. Men, according to the patriarchy, are entitled to have their desires catered to without fail, and if those desires come at the expense of a woman's needs or wants or basic human rights, then too damn bad. Women are objects whose only purpose is to satisfy men, and if they fail in that objective - if they are old or fat or disabled or homely, or dare to have opinions on things or to object to the way they are treated, or are otherwise unsuited to provide sexual gratification for a man - they are completely useless and deserve to be treated accordingly.

    It might not be as heavy-handedly blatant now as it was in times past, but the undercurrent is still there, in every aspect of patriarchal society. Women have made great strides forward in achieving equality, but there's always going to be resistance, because those patriarchal values are so deeply ingrained that the people who buy into them - especially men, the ones who profit from them - can't see anything but the downfall of western civilization if the status quo is disturbed.

    It also doesn't help that so many people seem to see agency as a finite resource that can only be had by taking it away from someone else - a minority gaining rights at the expense of the majority. Men who protest against feminism think that they will have fewer rights the more rights women are granted when that's simply not true. Any privileged class will have added responsibility and accountability for their actions as a minority gains more agency, but this is not remotely the same as the majority having their rights impinged upon or taken away. People just can't wrap their heads around this concept, though, and so we get more panicked objections as to why the precious status quo (and men's delicate feelings) musn't ever be upset.

    Some men are able to overcome what patriarchal society is trying to teach them. Most men, it seems, aren't that strong, and we all suffer the consequences of their failure.
  • maninahat
    I don't think it's that either. MRAs are just men who are somewhat oblivious to the problems women face, often brushing an issue off without being able to see the broader implications. To them, a shitty female character is just a shitty female character, and that's the extent of it. As far as they are concerned, there are no negative stereotypes, or any larger social implications to shit like Charlie's Angels. They just tend to look at these things in isolation, and that's the problem.
  • LuciusMadgloom  - lol
    yeah cause of "those men" can't even be kind to a woman without getting a feminist lecture

    though I find few things a bit of... in
    societies like USA that are infact ruled by the majority..men aren't the majority, women are... Men die younger, which leads to the conclusion of women outnumbering men, yet men are still in the lead.. wouldn't that clearly show that women prefer men as leaders?

    just to be perfectly clear that is no sexist "men are better" BS I think women are better..but want to ponting out that we are in the age of democracy, and although maybe the world would be a better place if women ruled it (I can't realy tell if that were true) the fact stays the majority of women, which is a general majority as well, Doesn't want to rule.. or atleast the laws of democracy make it seem that way
  • Laxpolilla  - interesting point
    It's not that women want to be ruled by men, simply that they aren't as willing to run. In fact, when women DO run for office, they tend to win over their male opposition. This could be due to many factors: women are seen as less threatening, less corrupt, more honest in general, caretakers and providers, etc. These, to the masses who elect them, seem like good traits for a leader because you have a more natural inclination to trust them as a mother like figure.

    The problem is women simply don't run for office as often as men. I don't think its that they'd rather a man rule as much as that we ARE a male dominated society, and women don't think they have a chance. The few who brave the storm, however, do in fact have statistics on their side.

    Another reason I think is that women tend to have a broader perception of how their actions affect people. It probably stems from having to birth and care for a child, and thus needing to understand what actions will positively and negatively affect yourself and your child. Point being, that a woman can see the negative affects her running will have on her family and her current life, and may find that the advantages don't outweigh the consequences.
  • snoofulus
    It should be noted that men, while certainly not "oppressed", DO have to deal with certain disadvantages that I don't mind being reasonably fought against.

    Most of that stuff is either a part of that "patriarchal" mentality, or reverse sexism for being the oppressive, aggressive gender.
    Some of those prejudices are obviously based on actual statistics.

    So you've got things like men being seen as more expendable / less deserving of sympathy, being more deserving of violence by women, being met with more suspicion (in courts etc.), and, of course, having to be much more careful about not sounding sexist than women.

    Even I sympathize with all those attitudes on an instinctive level, but I don't see a problem with anyone who decides this is a prejudice problem and should be criticized.
  • snoofulus
    Not sure if this was supposed to be satire or whatever, but what a PATHETIC comment that was.
  • AntiEnviro  - agreed
    a good review.
    And i must say that i find it far more erotic when a woman's finer features are covered rather than revealed to all the world. so in the case of similar minded men you are far more attractive than your normal street cloths. :)
  • TempestSatori
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    second!

    Hah, no but seriously good times, keep it up NChick.
  • PMCM
    Third! Darn it, I will be first one of these days! Great review, as always :).
  • Ellie Bee
    Fourth! But I remember not really liking this film when I was younger... But Lindsay, it is not as horrendous as the sequel.
  • Travoltron
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    I can think of only a couple female action stars that didn't rely on fetishism-- Etsuko Shihomi (AKA Sue Shiomi) and Michelle Yeoh (AKA Michelle Khan).

    Ironically both of them were culturally obligated to retire from action movies after marrying.
  • Slowking
    Michelle Rodriguez comes to mind immediately.
    While she is sexy in real life, she usually never is in her movies. There she plays the hardened mercenary type.

    Also Sigourney Weaver and she kicks ass.
  • Creature SH
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    What Michelle Rodriguez is cast as is usually just another fetish fulfillment typecast.
  • Slowking
    By that definition everything is a fetish fullfilment. Which is ofcourse true, see rule 34.
    But what are we supposed to do, never leave home and keep our eyes shut? Because that is what this is leading to.
  • basteagui
    it's suprising to me that n chick didn't even count on my burka fetish
  • mrrubino
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    Michelle Rodriguez's career is to forever play Vasquez from Aliens. The less feminine of the two badass action heroines who dies by the end because she's the less feminine of the two badass action heroines.
    Haven't seen Machete though. She's in the sequel, you say? Proves nothing. Could be flashbacks.
  • snoofulus
    I wonder, though, how should one see this whole "less feminine more prone to death" thing?

    Is it misogyny (woman got to be feminine, or else!), or a symptom of the same complex that makes men more expendable in most people's minds?
  • cvrpapc
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    Movie characters...They aren't real. HELLO No one really looks like that!!! Men/Women are so addicted to fantasies and pornography. Once they go out in the real world and find that women/men are HOLY SHIT PEOPLE with like..feelings and junk! Not just rubber chew toys that squeek to their every whim. Its upsetting and they get angry.

    Once young men mature up and get over that phase. You meet a good woman who stimulates your mind and body, you value her for more than just her boobs - those are still okay though. Its called: love, fidelity, partnership, and intimacy..aka a relationship.

    But I really hope Lindsey doesn't take comments of a bunch of teens seriously. The internet is full of sexually frustrated anons who secretly are just lonely because they are too awkward to interact with real people.

    I don't think women need us to be fucken white knights for them either. I like boobs and looking at boobs. That will never change. But the difference is that I would never post that on her comments section because its degrading and devalues her opinions and effort. I like her reviews and if she were a dude I would still watch them.

    8)
  • IggytThunders  - there aren't that many it's true
    It's because a female lead is always "controversial": it isn't, and the conception is trite reverse sexism usually wrapped in a sassy self-narrating indie-pop wrapper.

    I am trying to conceive of a few action heros of distinction who happen to be female but beside Jolie none pop to mind...can I name characters from movies on this one?

    Falling Snow from 'Hero'. Sarah Connor from 'T2'.Michelle Yeoh from 'Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon'. Uma Thurman in 'Kill Bill'.
    Can we count animes in this?
    Ryoko from 'Tenchi Muyo' (she is promiscuous but its part of her truculent, impulsive;ly brash nature. While the sexual comedy behind her high jinks attempting to seduce Tenchi are often hilarious, they're also pathetically thematic in a way because they portray a deep seated ineptitude to endear herself to Tenchi. She doesn't know how to convey her earnest intimacy for him.). Twilight Tsuzuka from 'Outlaw Star' (they shoehorn some alluded emphatuation to Jean the main guy in the last episode, but if you ignore that single instance of pandering she's an arrestingly stoic character.)Balalaika from 'Black Lagoon'.(crazy mother fucking russian chick.) Casca from 'Berserk'. Olivier Armstrong from 'FMA'. Winry Rockbell from 'FMA'. Hawkeye from 'FMA'. Birdy from 'Birdy the mighty decod' (barring the outfit Birdy herself is fairly sexually indifferent.). Integra Hellsing from 'Hellsing'.

    Anime may fetishize some of its women to a point, but in a place as sexually repressed as Japan an overtly sultry woman is seen as empowered through her psychological fluency . She's seen as a perseon beautifully reconciled with herself as a women, herself as a visceral force and herself as a subversive and poignant intellect. You see this motif constantly.
  • maninahat
    Michelle Yeoh used it a bit at times. After all, no one could say she was hard on the eyes. I can't honestly remember a single female action star who wasn't good looking. I can think of males like Sly Stallone, Sammo Hung and Mickey Rourke - hardly the most handsome sort - but no female equivalents. That's quite telling.
  • Dukeofmeh
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    Pretty sure this is now one of my favourite reviews on this site. That bit with the magically appearing lever killed me!
  • HankMan
    FIRST ...page!
    Well a low cut bodice is still WAY more empowering than a niqab. I know you're the "nostalgia" chick but reverting the status of women THAT far back isn't healthy.

    Why can't women just have FUN?
  • st_jane_ambulance
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    The point of feminism is not about being empowered by a specific kind of clothing or lifestyle, it's about a woman's freedom of choice in all aspects of her life. Any woman should be well within her rights to wear a niqab OR a low-cut bodice if that's what she wants to wear.

    She could even wear both if she feels like it.
  • ohe
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    ...because feminine people make up the one solitary faction in the world that still lack even a part of that freedom.
  • Mizu Takishima
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    No offense, but unless you youself are a woman, I honestly don't think its up to you.

    If a woman finds a bodice empowering, that's fine. If a woman finds a niqab to be empowering, that's fine too.

    But if a guy thinks a woman ISN'T empowered when she's covered up, and thinks that the only way to have fun is to make herself appealing to men?

    I'm sorry but noooooo @__@
  • mehja
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    I know it is supposed to be a niqab and about dressing modestly.
    But when I see Team NChick in it all that comes to mind is:

    NINJA NUNS!
  • Madzack
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    You mean, NUN-JAs!
  • junebug_nery
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    WIN! Here ya go, Madzack, have yourself an Internet -- you've earned it.
  • IggytThunders  - but isn't it our choice in kind?
    If we don't find something attractive then we don't find it attractive. Now does that mean a woman must needs indulge in promiscuous or explicit attire to entice male enthusiasm? Fuck no.

    That said, isn't a woman dressing attractively just a woman dressing attractively. Isn't there a saying "women dress for other women"? That's not an invariable norm but, like I said, isn't a woman who appears sulty and or aesthetically arresting just arresting, even to herself? Is there no sense of private joy that comes from one's own attractive nature?

    Of course what constitutes attractive in any regard is not contingent entirely on the person in question...(sigh) oftentimes what's seen as cogent and pragmatic and beautiful for its intellectual, emotional or social function is not alway captivating to the fairer sex. Nor to men for that matter.

    I agree a woman should not have to dress a specific way to please men; and frankly I see this is as applicable in the polar respect.

    But can we ignore the basic realities that physical appeal enhances the probability of interaction with the opposite sex? Or hell, even our own respecitvely?
  • trlkly
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    If your argument depends on something your opponent can never do, you've already lost. "You have to be a woman" is not an argument, it's an excuse for sloppy thinking.

    The real truth is that women are a part of society, which has specific mores. If you choose to violate those mores, you will be socially ostracized. Guys who dress with too much skin are also ostracized. Guys who dress pretty are ostracized. Girls who use too much skin are ostracized. Girls who dress not pretty are ostracized.

    No amount of protest is going to change this as long as women tend to value guys for ruggedness. As long as this is the case, women will have to do the opposite.

    And it won't change anything as long as women complain about being thought of as sexy when most guys would kill to be thought of that way.

    Now can we please get back to a freaking comedy video instead of discussing this crap so you can look down on everyone?
  • negrocritic
    never relizeed that Im cameron diaz, I answer the door in my underwear and I like to look at my own ass.
  • thecarabides
    Hooray for feminism!! Great review, chick!
  • IggytThunders  - How?
    She went in the opposite degree denying her physical sexuality, arguable propigating the idea that a woman's body is tantamount to illiteracy or meaningless sexploitation. You could easily make the argument that that's worse as it makes sexual content taboo, making it a subject more prone to gross deviancy and abuse. It's historical fact that a country that DOES NOT reconcile itself with its sexual nature is more prone to radical forms of abuse. What she's attempted, even in jest, is an immature conception of what it means to be intelligent and a woman. She denied a part of herself altogether. That's not healthy.
  • snoofulus
    It's a JOKE, you f... I don't even
  • Al779
    boobs
  • LikaLaruku
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    Where? I think I missed them.
  • negrocritic  - yeah well...now ya;ll just look like poorly dresse
    awsome
  • Gothsheep0
    I liked that Power Girl costume. Not for the, um, obvious reasons, but just because Power Girl was a pretty eclectic choice while still fitting the whole theme perfectly.
  • teddifunken
    "They can't objectify us if they can't see us."

    Yo I think you're way underestimating the ability of some people to objectify other people.

    Your point is well taken however.
  • Gamer_Ely
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    Because men are never objectified by women right? Channing Tatum... that is all.
  • FieldMarshalPatton^3
    Insulting Islamic culture to talk about three fools in a dumb movie. So I can't enjoy looking at the female body because that degrades women...Also the purpose of the Niqab is the cover a woman's hair because that is very important to them. You're doing it wrong. Also Burqas cover the whole face so nothing shows...Do you just like creating trolls by being so insulting?
  • Lossthief
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    And today on "Missing the Point Entirely"...
  • FieldMarshalPatton^3
    No I got what she was saying, Clothing and how women are represented in media in having to wear ridiculous outfits that focus on the areas men are suppose to be attracted to, like Power Girl's Window top or if you watched Linkara's latest cat woman review how the artist did that.
  • badgersprite
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    No, you're still missing the point entirely.

    The point is, all a woman has to do is exist, especially if said existence occurs in any kind of public eye, and the conversation will invariably turn to how sexy she is or isn't at some point, or how she's trying too hard to be sexy, or how many times some random dude has fapped to her, regardless of what it had to do with anything.

    Even when the sexiness of a woman has nothing to do with anything, women are invariably judged by their body and how they wear things, no matter what. Accentuating attractiveness to men isn't essential either. It doesn't matter if women are or aren't doing that.

    It doesn't matter if you're the President of a country, or if you're a doctor, or the lead character in a movie -- if you are a woman, your worth as a person is still almost always at some point linked back to how hot you are or aren't, or what you look like, and someone will always have a problem with it, and will always dismiss your worth either because you're too sexy, or not sexy enough.

    So, yeah, you still missed the point. The point was that a woman cannot show an image of her body in any context regardless of what she wears without subjecting that image to the discourse that judges women on their appearance, which ultimately makes feminism feel like a losing fight and fosters disillusionment with society as a whole. No matter what a woman does, there's every chance her body will be used as a weapon against her in arguments or as some means of degrading her, again, regardless of whether it's because someone perceives her as "not sexy" or "too sexy", and it's frustrating as hell.

    That was the point. Is that clear to you now?
  • jz1337
    Whatever point there was got lost a long time ago. Just seems like a rant video disguised as a Charlie's Angel Review and a "take that" on any fans that have criticized her for inserting her political views into other videos.
  • Linkara
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    No. She's doing a "take that" to the people who comment on nothing but her appearance in these videos.

    Over on Spoony's forum, in the thread discussing To Boldly Flee, a poster said they hated how she was flaunting her chest.

    While wearing perfectly normal women's clothing.

    And they do it all the damn time here.

    And she's more than a little sick of people simply commenting "ZOMG you're so hot!" and nothing else.
  • jaw4ever
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    Thanks for back story.
  • keniakittykat
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    Wow, that's harsh. And sadly also relatable. I work as a city street-sweep and how I do my job isn't important to anyone, I mostly get commented on the way I bend down to pick up trash, or how 'sexy' I look in overalls.

    I'm just doing my crappy job in a fitting uniform. But do people thank me for cleaning? Nooo, most men ask me for my phone number and stare at my ass and boobs while most women won't even look at me straight.

    Just for once I'd like someone to say I did a good job without asking for my number =(
  • Contrarian  - Thank you for keeping the streets clean.
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    A clean neighborhood is a safer neighborhood. Your work helps make the world a better place. Litter and urban blight causes stress in those who live around it. Thank you for your contribution to society. You did a good job.
  • TheMollyandPippinShow  - Seriously?
    People really comment just to say that? Can't they at least put down what they thought of the review? There are some people in this world who I just do not understand.
  • doommagic
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    You've not seen any of The Awesometeer's comments before, have you? Because that's basically all he ever says to any of the female reviewers on this site, for the most part. Aaaaand taking a quick look through the comments...yup, that's what he decided to do again this time too! What a trooper, that one~
  • JaylaClark  - Thank you, sir.
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    It drives me nuts... that Blip auto-cycles shows now, but I can get past that distraction (happened exactly while I was typing /aside) ... that somehow, that _has_ to enter into the equation.

    I mean, yeah, she's attractive. You know what? So's Doug. So are you, Mister Lovhaug. Nobody on this site is exactly hideous, not counting Diamanda because that's a conscious presentation choice, of course... and yet people keep on going on about how OMG Lindsay's using her looks or say the same for Lupa, Jesuotaku... you have to leave the comments section and hit bloody Fetish Fuel Wiki to hear anyone comment on the guys. Or Nella. (I'd tell Nella she _is_ hot right now, but that would be defeating the purpose of my post. Besides, I think she knows.)

    Didn't Spoony's (possibly-now-ex) girlfriend get run off the site on her first appearance because of this?
  • LunaBuna  - If I might answer your last question--
    avatar
    From what I've gathered, Spoony featured his now-ex-girlfriend in a video he did. The comments were full of assholes belittling her for her appearance, so he took the video down. I didn't see the video when it was up, but I did see how angry he got afterwards at how some of his followers could be so insensitive. I wouldn't say she got run off the site because of this since she was still moderating his message board and running the site IIRC, but I do know she's gone now, for more obvious reasons.
  • jz1337
    I dunno feels like a "take that" to both. Then again if people (the viewers) actual end up bothered by that, they have other problems.
  • junebug_nery
    avatar
    ^ THIS (what Linkara said). Nice to see the members of TGWTG having each other's backs.

    I think some of the commenters take these videos waaay too seriously, i.e. they miss the point or the joke (i.e. no, people, Lindsay is not making fun of Islamic culture).

    Anyway, um… underwear dance partaaay! Wooo!
  • trlkly
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    @Lewis: Flaunting your chest is also about how you stand. I haven't seen the special (since I HATE watching things in installments--I'm waiting until they are all out), but if she truly is not wearing her typical low-cut, cleavage revealing outfit, then it's likely how she's carrying herself.

    Furthermore, she has a history of showing that cleavage off, so that likely colored the perceptions of the audience.

    And, I'm sorry, if you're in a visual medium, and you are attractive, you're going to get comments from people telling you so. It happens to men, too, though less often because women are not quite as visually stimulated as men are. The point being, if she's tired of getting comments about how hot she is, she should stop making videos.

    Honestly, to this guy who would love it if people would tell him he was attractive, it comes off as snobbery to get all offended by it. It's like a smart person getting offended that people ask them questions.

    People who are hot can easily make themselves not so, by changing how they eat and dress, and, yes, not making videos on the Internet. People who are not hot cannot make themselves so. I'm sorry, but it's like first-world problems. I can't be made to care, when she has what most of us aspire to.

    That said, it was obvious to anyone with the most basic social skills that Lindsay does not like being told she's hot. She turned a comedy review series into a show where she can show off her intellect. She makes no bones about how she is a feminist. These people often have hangups about being attractive.

    But that's what it is--a hangup--something she needs to deal with. That's why I assume this was all done for the joke, and not as some serious comment. Making it serious, Lewis, doesn't really help.

    At least, I hope it was all for the joke at the end, because she's seriously uninformed if she thinks wearing a niqab will prevent her from being exploited--not only are covered up girls a fetish, but the very countries that use these sexualize women to the point that men are not allowed to interact with them.

    She's got to know that real feminism and real female empowerment is about empowering yourself. That means not letting other people have power over you. A truly empowered woman doesn't care if women devalue her--she knows she has value.
  • Laxpolilla  - whaa
    1. There is a difference between being people calling you attractive and people objectifying you. Lindsey is not complaining here about people calling her hot. She's commenting on the fact that people are judging her because apparently she shows "too much cleavage", even though she is not consciously doing so. That is objectifying her. People are judging her based on a part of her body being too sexy, rather than the content of what she posts.

    2.As a guy, I don't think you can quite understand what that is like. It seems most men view this differently than women. A man isn't affected by an objectifying comment the same way a woman is and he doesn't view them the same way a woman does. That said, a man should recognize what is appropriate to say to a woman regarding her appearance, and most of them do. This only further proves how insensitive and belittling these comments are.

    3. Oh hell no, you did not just say her intelligence is because of low self esteem. Are you one of those people who thinks that women are only there to look pretty? Really? Women have brains too, and we like to use them. It says NOTHING about a woman's looks or self esteem when she prefers intellectual stimulation. The only thing it says about her is that she's a smart girl who got bored with the structure of her show and decided to make it more intellectual. And people enjoy it. That's it.

    4. Yes, "ugly" (and I use this term loosely) people can make themselves prettier. Half of their supposed unattractiveness stems from a lack of confidence, not being physically unattractive. I should know. I was that girl, and once I stopped trying to hide what made me "ugly" and cared, I became a much more pretty person. There are no ugly people. Only ugly personalities.

    5. To stop making videos because some objectified her would only feed the problem. Like anyone else, she deserves to be treated with respect, not run out of town.
  • jz1337
    Did not know it was that bad. But like I said, I can't know her intentions.

    But either way wouldn't that just feed the trolls with such a direct shot at them?
  • jz1337
    People are asinine when commenting all the time though, it is generally bad to antagonize these people further. It doesn't make it okay but I've seen way worse than just calling someone hot.

    I can't know her intentions. But it did come off as including people who didn't like her feminist heavy videos in general with the whole "feminism is over" schtick.

    If I took it the wrong way, I apologize. This is the interwebz.
  • maninahat
    Damn straight. Hell, just scroll up to the top of this thread, and you'll see people arguing about whether Nella is attractive, completely oblivious to what has just been said in the video.
  • athehun11
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    TL;DR version: she's just tired of a bunch of weirdos making comments on her looks on every video. I think jz1337's comment is much more concise.

    Really, I'm feeling a lot of frustration from her towards the people who comment on this site. For that reason, this video felt pretty unpleasant and uncomfortable to watch. I don't comment purely on a person's looks when the commentary is about something else entirely. But I can't help but feel like I'm intended to be included in the message as some sort of ad hominem regardless.

    Idk, I'm just detecting some vitriol here, is all.
  • ohe
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    Thank you badgersprite for being frank about this. This was indeed the point, but usually people are making their actual statements so vague and assuming that it's really hard to confront them without them immediately sidestepping away from that specific issue,which makes it hard to make this point:

    If you're fat it will be used against you, and if you're handsome it will be used against you, and if you're good at math it will be used against you... there's probably not a single fault, or even an edge, which wouldn't be twisted to serve the assumption that it's a sign of less worth in some other area.

    To me this whole thing seems more like women have already been so densely protected from unfair attacks against their person that only the most superficial remarks can still be made without missing the mark, and those happen to be the ones about looks and sexuality. While most people are dealing with the reality that there's always something they can be faulted for because that is completely unreasonable to begin with, feminism is fighting the futile war of protecting certain groups from such a thing completely. This is even more senseless knowing the fact that the original cause for women to be singled out like that in this issue is exactly because, in the name of feminism, every unjust accusation against a person who happens to be a woman started to be seen as a result of her being a woman. For that reason the misogynistic assumptions some people have against women are increasingly more focused and more strongly internalized from hearing the arguments (both for and against) ever so often, and in that sense the different waves of feminism actively work against each other.
  • ohe
    avatar
    jz1337 and athehun11 are making some fine examples of my point. Putting aside Lindsay's motivations, her points are still valid, put those two are ready to slight them by making assumptions based on incidental evidence. They don't even care about the argument, they're just estimating whether or not she's friend material as a person, i.e. somebody who they need to even listen.

    This relates to my point in the way that that's just another way of valuing one's opinions based on who s/he is rather than what s/he says, which people are always doing to each other but for what feminism uses as an excuse to feel martyrized if you're a woman.
  • athehun11
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    Sure, dude. *rolleyes*

    I like how you accuse me of making assumptions based on "incidental evidence" by making assumptions yourself off of incidental evidence.

    I'm not basing my comment on if Lindsay is friend material for me. I'm more or less saying that Lindsay's message seems less about actual social issues, and more about her personal frustrations. It doesn't need an essay to decipher that. I don't know where you draw your wild conclusions from.
  • ohe
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    I'm also claiming that everybody does that. Good to know you like me being consistent.

    What I meant by 'friend material' is that you're putting her in a group, in the one whose residents are frustrated by the subject matter enough for it to cloud their judgement and thusly affect them enough to fundamentally define what they will say. It's also completely irrelevant whether, or not, you would consider yourself siding with that group; I don't even know your opinions, your person is also irrelevant. I'm pointing out the basis of your judgement, not its outcome. And that's portrayed by your words, the only thing I know or care about you right now. That is not clouded by things like "personal frustrations", as you put it about Lindsay.
  • athehun11
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    I'm not putting her in any group.

    Don't you think you're reading a little too much into this? Maybe putting together pieces that aren't there? This isn't an exercise in deconstructionism; and trying to sound like an intellectual doesn't necessarily make you one.
  • ohe
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    What does it make me if I will desperately try getting the last word in this?
  • athehun11
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    Idk, this is speculating, but I think it might make you someone who thrives off of some sort of satisfaction from being "right" on the internet.

    But hey, if that's what gets you off, have at it. Don't let me ruin your parade.
  • jz1337
    Of course we can't say for sure what her motivation behind that video was. But we can infer based on her behavior over her video history and her own words.

    If multiple viewers are doing this and coming back with the feeling that Lindsey is attacking her fanbase a bit by roping them in with the worst ones. It might be worth considering.

    And besides, I doubt Lindsey cares whether a few people casually consider her aggressive towards her fanbase.
  • snoofulus
    "This is even more senseless knowing the fact that the original cause for women to be singled out like that in this issue is exactly because, in the name of feminism, every unjust accusation against a person who happens to be a woman started to be seen as a result of her being a woman."

    Actually, lots of unjust accusations made against women are due to their gender.

    When one group gets substantially more flak / problems for something than another, it's always a sign of something being wrong.
    Men are judged by their apearence all the time, too, but I don't remember reading about any annoying abundance of "you're hot" comments directed at males.

    Whether that's due to some sexist thing in culture, or that most viewers here are male (the internet is full of female "he's hot" comments under lots of videos, after all), is something you can debate in a much more useful discussion than the one you're having right now.
  • cvrpapc
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    "Men are judged by their apearence all the time, too, but I don't remember reading about any annoying abundance of "you're hot" comments directed at males."

    That's cause ...we haven't been properly introduced yet...69696969
  • snoofulus
    It should be noted that Lindsay Ellis has done her fair share of the occasional female gaze in various reviews.

    Men are objectfied by women all the time, but I wouldn't know of any male contributor on, say, this site, being flooded with endless fangirl comments.
    Now NChick aside, who does, in many, but not all of these videos, "look sexy" - in a way that only would be matched by a dude wearing a really loose tank top - from what I've heard, pretty much all the female contributors on this site get exactly that.

    Although you can feel free to rebuke that claim ;)
  • 9ansean  - Brief note on female gaze
    One thing I find a little ironic about the last line (that is they can't see us they can't object us), is Todd's always keeping himself unseen (to various degrees) on this site, yet that hasn't prevented Lindsey from presenting him as an "object" of devotion! I don't mean this as a criticism, it just kind of amuses me.
  • eye
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    slowclap for this
  • phnxprmnt021
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    I love this comment, and am taking it as my wife.
  • clammy
    Wow dude, you have issues...
  • rockybalboa211
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    Nowhere did Lindsay insult Islamic Culture in this video. I think you totally missed the point of the video. It isn't wrong for guys to enjoy the physical female form, yet it's when guys objectify women that one will see problems. I mean, Linkara has pointed this out in many of his videos concerning recent comics and comic book covers. Women are not just sexual objects and any representation that presents them as solely sexual objects is degrading.
  • IggytThunders  - as opposed to the none insulting comedies?
    Dude, my entire family (barring myself) are Mormon. I have heard every Polygamy joke ever shat out of the mouths of illiterate pricks the world over. And I laugh...because it's funny. And yeah: most comedy is predicated on commentary on controversial content.

    For example, Meet Marvin:

    http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=3gWNkTNnCFc

    Now that's a man who got point blanked in the face, a directly reverent treatment of the death of a human being. Why? Because it's a portrayal of how Vincent and Jules construe the situation. Hence the comey.

    Now that's death. Let's try rape:
    http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=TLoN-ZIYDf8

    Nostalgia Chick is a persona. She's resorting to a ridiculous hyper feminist degree of dress she knows nothing about (like an ignorant but desperate person) and it's funny for that reason.

    It's cool you care so vehemently, man, but dial it back, huh?
  • snoofulus
    If you call the simple wearing of an "Islamic costume" to be an insult, you have an irrational oversensitivity to the issue, and shouldn't comment on it.

    Generally, if it's worn voluntarily as a protection from annoying male gazes, it's, if anything, a POSITIVE comment of the burqa etc., rather than a negative one which would focus on its use as a tool of oppression by men.
  • WarxePB
    avatar
    The analysis of the movie was great as usual. And yes, some anvils need to be dropped, but I gotta say that Nella and Elisa just kinda felt like strawmen in this one. I couldn't tell if it was meant to be serious or a parody since it was kinda toeing the line of both, making it seem a bit indecisive (like Lindsay didn't want to get too much backlash but still wanted everyone to know how she felt; considering the history of this site, not necessarily a bad choice). That could just be me though.

    But I wholeheartedly agree that the double standard is a horrible thing, and in a supposedly enlightened age, we should've been rid of things like workplace inequality and rape culture a long time ago. The sad thing is that it's going to take at least a few more generations, maybe even more, to finally get rid of it. The important part is that we keep trying, even if feminism is "over", since we won't accomplish anything without a lot of effort. And it just sounds like I'm digging myself deeper, but I seriously do agree with Lindsay here.
  • alexanderthegreat
    It's interesting you found Nella and Elisa to be the strawmen in the argument: I actually felt like LINDSAY was the strawman here, saying effectively "well, we still have inequality and problems, I guess that means we should give up. And I guess since people are always going to comment on what I'm wearing and why I'm wearing lipstick if I claim to be a feminist, I guess conforming to the savage dichotomy is the only thing to do." As you say, the point is to keep trying: Lindsay - or rather, the Nostalgia Chick - is speaking out of despair, not authority.
  • BoomKrakatoa
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    At least us females have one good action film star, and that's Katniss Everdeen. It's sad that it's taken this long for an actually competent and cool female main character to show up.

    What Lindsay said about feminism being over was completely true.

    On a slightly unrelated note, I see she has the edition of Beowulf with the original old english as well as the modern english translation. Fun times, fun times.
  • Slowking
    [quote]At least us females have one good action film star, and that's Katniss Everdeen. It's sad that it's taken this long for an actually competent and cool female main character to show up.[/quote]

    Ääääääääääääääääääähm? Ellen Ripley, nuff said.
  • LunaBuna
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    Yup, I'll take both. :) I think the difference is the generation gap, mostly. Or maybe two generation gaps. One and a half? I dunno. Just my two cents.
  • flamingoman
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    Ellen Ripley, Buffy, River Tam, Hit Girl, Hanna, Selene (before the series devolved into "Check out my Ridiculously Hot Wife" territory), Eowyn (not a primary protagonist but still a badass), Mulan, Merida... I could keep going.
  • FieldMarshalPatton^3
    Also I'm going keep looking at beautiful women because I am a man and my brain is programed to be attracted to that. Excuse me for enjoying the female body. So a woman is either a slut or has to be dressed from head to toe in Islamic dress? And knock it off with your strawman arguments they make you look lazy and ignorant.
  • rosie_T
    Can we please create an internet law for the word 'strawman'? Like how if you call someone a Nazi, too bad, so sad, you lose? Only with people who think calling strawman is totally the be-all end-all of an argument?
  • ohe
    avatar
    I'd especially like that with these acted out sequences where every character is pretty much a strawman by definiton, for the exact reason of them being characters in a plot.
  • rosie_T
    (Also if I may: you liking looking at female bodies should not be the only thing that defines women as people - and yet that's all we get in media today, hence the problem)
  • ohe
    avatar
    Compared to whom? Shia LaBeouf, Sylvester Stallone and Commander Shepard?

    Oh joy.
  • rosie_T
    You really want to compare that? Shia Lebeouf has a history of being touted as the next big thing, compared to Tom Hanks, giving kudos and accolades for being a damn decent actor (not...lately but still), so it's not really down to his looks (nevermind I can't even count if he's ever been in a movie where he was featured shirtless or half dressed for even a small portion of it) Stallone is HARDLY given props for his looks, so I don't even know how you came up with that one - guys like Stallone and Schwazeneger are more male power fantasy than female anyway. Men are not defined by how they're looked at by women, women are defined by how they're looked at by males in media, it's that simple. It's why you have badass characters like James Bond, Indiana Jones, Batman and the like and we can't even have Ripley without having a good chunk of the movie feature her in just a pair of itty-bitty panties.
  • Earl Grey  - facepalm
    avatar
    It was just ending not a good chunk of the movie...
  • rosie_T
    The ending the beginning 5 minutes 10 minutes god who fucking cares how much you nerd fucking assholes fucking bet you have it logged in your spank bank just how many fucking minutes you got to ogle her half dressed.
  • cvrpapc
    avatar
    its because its what we want to see bro...
  • snoofulus
    "Stallone is HARDLY given props for his looks"
    Despite being pretty damn good looking, at least back in the 80s.
    Now he's a cool looking old guy, though.


    "so I don't even know how you came up with that one - guys like Stallone and Schwazeneger are more male power fantasy than female anyway."
    You mean "female sexual fantasies" or "female power fantasies"?
    Whatever "fantasies" those action heroes fulfill, everyone knows that those guys attract a fair share of Female Gaze.

    What is true, however, is that all those shirtless men running around aren't sexualized in any way - having the "positive" effect of not making the male fanboys feel gay. ;)


    "Men are not defined by how they're looked at by women, women are defined by how they're looked at by males in media"
    I don't know about that, but they sure defined themselves by how they're looked at by women ;)


    Although that most obviously is a difference.
  • snoofulus
    "It's why you have badass characters like James Bond, Indiana Jones, Batman and the like and we can't even have Ripley without having a good chunk of the movie feature her in just a pair of itty-bitty panties."

    While I did find that bit annoying (if you mean the ending of Alien, I don't remember any others right now), male badass characters very often get undressed, or run around shirtless all the time.

    One that springs to mind is Rufus Sewell getting naked at the beginning of Dark City - if it were a female protagonist, would you go "they did have to show it, didn't they"?
  • flamingoman
    avatar
    We got to see quite a few of the characters in underwear and that was the last ten, fifteen minutes of the movie. Daniel Craig's James Bond was also featured in a full on glamour shot of him in itty bitty swimming trunks. Then there's Channing Tatum, or Taylor Lautner who spends a good majority of the Twilight films shirtless. Need I go on?
  • ladydiskette
    avatar
    I have no problem with feminism, as a woman myself of course. But I wouldn't call myself a hardcore feminist. I do support other feminists and I believe that it has gotten us over some major leaps and boundries in the past century or so.


    But the fact is I believe in the old school feminism of equality. And that includes choosing if you want to be a housewife or be a career woman not because someone says you should, but because you want to.


    Now as for objectifying, I have had my share of it and have been judged sorely on my looks for good or for bad. Not just by men, but even by other women as well. Its a double-edged sword sadly,and its a sad despictable thing to have done to you. Which is why I agree with Lindsay's discussion on how there are so many problems with people judging you on your looks and not what you are saying.

    Physical attractiveness does not always equal worth and intelligence.

    Honestly, I think Hollywood and the music industry (espically pop music) has made the "Strong Independent Woman" thing as a gimmicky cashgrab to appeal to women who were dumped by men or hurt by them in thier life to make money when women like Beyonce sing about it or make movies like "Charlies Angels" so they can buy it because it speaks into thier relatablity.
  • flamingoman
    avatar
    Agreed with you on everything save for the "cash grab" bit. While I won't deny that some of it is obviously gimmicky and a cheap attempt to get females in the seats I also feel that there is plenty of it that is genuine. Especially if Joss Whedon is behind it.

    The problem is the genuine stuff tends to get overlooked while the cash grab nonsense is what everyone sees mostly because it has bigger commercial backing.
  • Truxillogical
    avatar
    I think maybe Daniel Craig does this a lot?

    I'm reminded of Cowboys & Aliens. At one point, yup, there's a scene where the token female is naked but oddly enough, it's not really played up in a sexy way at all. It's...I don't want to say primal, but it's almost basic--the body not so much as a sexual object as it is a base template.

    But Craig gets a (clothed-ish) shower scene, all soaking wet, and very tight pants, and camera focused on his bum.


    But that sort of thing isn't all that common in action movies. The male heroes may lose their shirts, but there's rarely any blatant objectification going on in the same way that happens for the ladies.
  • flamingoman
    avatar
    It's not as blatant in action films -typically intended for males- but there is a blatant amount of male objectification in romance or romantic comedy films. The man is often perfect, maybe not always an object of sexuality, but regardless the males in these types of films are not treated as actual human beings and are instead objects of female fantasy.
  • maninahat
    There is some truth to that, but in terms of money and attention, which movies tend to get the lion's share? Romance movies certainly objectify men at times, but romance movies tend to be cheap, small scale movies made for, and marketed towards women. Compare this to action movies, which get hundreds of millions of dollars, are made for men, but marketed towards everyone. The scale of objectification isn't equal, by any means.

    I'm saying we should have male-objectifying, multi-million dollar romance blockbusters to even out the odds. But it would be nice for film makers to actually spend some big bucks on "chick-flicks" once in a while. That's the one positive thing I can say about the Twilight movies. By virtue of their success, studios are willing to actually consider making bigger movies for women. So far, they've all been shit derivatives (Snow White and the Huntress, Red Riding Hood etc.), but it makes a nice change. I hope it really goes somewhere.
  • flamingoman
    avatar
    This is true. There are less romance films that have as large a budget as the average summer blockbuster.

    Although I will say the second highest grossing film of all time (which held the title of highest grossing film of all time for 12 years until Avatar was released) and one of the more expensive movies of its time was a romance film. But it was only one, whereas big budget actioners get at least ten to that one.
  • LikaLaruku
    avatar
    Islamic culture is never even brought up. you're just trolling. Her costume isn't even the point of the video.

    The point I'm getting is that male directors & comic book artists believe the male audience they're trying to appeal to hate empowered women & will only put up with them as characters as long as they dress like lingerie models. Japanese manga seems to support this.

    If you think about it, it's kind of insulting to the male audience too, since the directors & artists seem to truly believe that men can only think with their dicks.

    The other problem is when male directors try to make girl power movies for women & it turns out surprisingly sexist. If they can't stop thinking fundamental male thoughts, how can they understand what fundamentally appeals to women?
  • Joshism
    "If you think about it, it's kind of insulting to the male audience too, since the directors & artists seem to truly believe that men can only think with their dicks."

    I would argue that most guys can only think with their dicks. And I say this as a guy. It frustrates the hell out of me being a guy because most guys are knuckdragging penis-brains. I feel like the only person who raises there hand when someone in a room full of guys asks "Who doesn't like fan service?"
  • LikaLaruku
    avatar
    When it comes to fanservice, women think with their penises too.
  • BornIn1142
    avatar
    Your brain is programmed to be attracted to it? Uh, okay? So you have no independent will at all, and are a slave to biological programming?
  • Slowking
    Ah come on. He likes looking at women. So what? I like looking at men.
    So long as you are not forgetting, that the person you are looking at is not a thing, but a person, that shouldn't be a problem.
    I think douches who see women only as objects are by far in the minority. They are just really vocal (something that comes with being a douche).
  • alexanderthegreat
    Looking at beautiful women because you enjoy doing so is not the problem: refusing to consider women as human beings purely on the basis of their appearance and allowing it to cloud your actions is.

    "So a woman is either a slut or has to be dressed from head to toe in Islamic dress?"

    That's the exact thing she was arguing against, that it's a dangerous dichotomy to say there are only two extremes available. I'm afraid you might've completely missed the subtext.
  • snoofulus
    The "my brain is programmed" is generally a very bad argument, because your brain is "programmed" to do a lot of bad and stupid things.
  • amuamu
    This review was so great! I really liked the debate on if women in slutty outfits can be feminist or not. Also, my inner fangirl thought it was awesome to see Nella in the PowerGirl outfit. :P And yeah, I seriously wish that women didn't NEED to be sexy or whatever to star in an action movie.
  • OverratedRiley
    One thing not mentioned (kinda) is how over-sexualized society has become. I mean lets just look at the costumes worn by Supergirl of 1984 and the Charlie's Angels of 2000. There is this idea that sex equates to being strong and powerful: If I can kick ass in a corset, then I'm a true heroine!

    I mean Powergirl's costume does not in any way necessitate that one part missing that shows her cleavage, but there it is. She shows boobs, therefore she's a strong female character.

    The point I'm getting at is how time has made our culture less prudish and more open to sex. Is that a bad thing? Well look at the Charlie's Angels TV show, their costumes weren't blatantly sexualized, practicality wins over sex. It's annoying and Lindsay brings up a good point that this movie really should have been a period piece.
  • BornIn1142
    avatar
    Be honest now, how many comics featuring Power Girl have you read?

    She's not a strong female character because of the boobs, she's a strong female character despite them. Unlike Charlie's Angels and tons of other sex symbols, she has a personality, you know.
  • rosie_T
    Wow this is actually kind of totally depressing. Both awesome, and yet sad because holy hell some days I really feel like Lindsey by the end of this review.
  • Indraasil
    I actually have strong moral objection to the burqa and niqab. It's a tool of subjugation and objectification of women, so wearing it to escape that is pretty ironic.
  • TheBookGeek
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    I think that was the point, Indraasil
  • Linkara
    avatar
    Perhaps, but just as many women it of their own free will and choice for exactly the reasons Lindsay stated in the video. And trust me, I'm one of the biggest proponents of exporting American cultural ideas about clothing and attitudes, but in the end it comes down to a matter of the choice of the person who wishes to wear something and we should not judge simply because they don't make the choice we WANT them to make.
  • Slowking
    Yeah and female circumcision is a tradition mainly upheld by women. They pressure their daughters into it, just like their mothers pressured them.
    Doesn't make it less wrong.

    The burqa and niqab are a problem, even if women "wear it of their own free will".

    I don't really want to get into a debate over whether free will is an illusion or not, but if you have been indoctrinated your whole life there isn't much free will left. I think on that we should be able to agree... or not?
  • Lossthief
    avatar
    ...because clothing is totally comparable to an irreversible mutilation.
  • Slowking
    Both are tools to opress women.

    One is permanent, the other is not. One is ofcourse a lot worse than the other.
    But they are used to the same end. So yes, they are "totally compareable".
  • eye
    avatar
    Burqa and niqab are a way of coping with a problem, not the problem itself. Women wear them of their own free will to feel they are not being used for sexual fantasy so that they can go about their daily lives with dignity. If the only way they can feel comfortable and free to live is by hiding themselves, doesn't it seem the real problem is the world they are living in? The US is no better, we have only taught our women that they should learn to like being sexualized all the time regardless of whether they're looking for that kind of attention or not. We call it "empowerment" :/
  • Slowking
    No, women wear them because men don't want other men checking out "their" women and don't want "their" women to make actual human contact outside of the home. These men want "their" women all to themselfs, because for them women are property.

    It is a tool with which women are being oppressed and if women are accomplice to that, it does not make it better.

    If you are a woman who does not want to be objectified, swing a colourfull scarf around your head and wear baggy clothes. Don't wear a tool that is used around the world to opress women.

    Also I'm going to get so much shit for this, but I'm going to throw political correctness out the window:
    If you are a human and you are attractive, you will be sexualized. Regardless of gender, race, etc.
    You have to deal with it like an adault. By taking the compliment and moving on.
    The fact that people would like to have sex with you doesn't change the fact that you are intelligent, have feelings, etc.
    Your body is just the aspect of you that people will see first and some will love it. Isn't that a great thing?

    Ofcourse there will be douches who will only be interested in your body, but that should be apperent fast. You can just ignore these douches.
    Because there are way more people who want the whole package.

    Why have I written this in a gender neutral way? Because nowadays it happens both ways, probably just as often. Men just don't complain about it and when they do they get laughed at.
    Go to a bachelorette party and see what happens there.

    We may not have achieved gender equality in many things, but we certainly have achieved it in sexualizing people.

    And I for one don't think it's anything bad, unless there is an imbalance of power (boss / employe).
    Take it as the compliment that it is and move on.
  • WesleyFoxx
    avatar
    "It happens both ways" etc.

    Yes, it does. Not to the extent of the other way around, but it still happens. I kind of wish social justice issues weren't all about being the MOST unfairly treated; You're only allowed to complain about things if you have it worse off than someone else; if you're better off than someone else, its okay that you still face problems, because they're not as serious or culturally enforced or some shit. (Except they are, eg, as a man I'm apparently required to date, have sex, hang out with people, etc. despite being an aromantic social recluse who hates physical interaction. Seriously, when you are inevitably asked about your romantic life, say you've never even had a crush. Everyone within a two block radius will flock around you trying to meddle with your personal life)

    TL;DR version: First world problems are still problems.
  • snoofulus
    "We may not have achieved gender equality in many things, but we certainly have achieved it in sexualizing people."
    From all I've seen, I'm pretty sure women are still sexualized more.

    It, dare I say, sure applies to this site.
  • eye
    avatar
    "If you are a woman who does not want to be objectified, swing a colourfull scarf around your head and wear baggy clothes."

    There is no escape. It doesn't matter what frumpy or concealing thing a woman wears, what she is doing, whether she is trying to be appealing or trying to avoid such attention. There will always be men who will sexualize her and treat her like an object, like she is not a person. Women should "Take it as the compliment that it is and move on,". There is no compliment in being reduced to an object. This is degradation. And this is culturally "okay".

    Read the comments on videos on this site and tell me that any of the male reviewers get as many comments on their appearance or sexual appeal. Just because there are people who sexually objectify men doesn't mean our culture is balanced in its treatment of men and women.
  • phnxprmnt021
    avatar
    That's awesome. Three straight squares on sexism bingo. Keep going, please, I'd like to win my Spiderman watch.
  • Earl Grey
    avatar
    I agree with you.
  • evad
    avatar
    Linkara. I was under the impression that the actually point of the video was the fact that third wave feminism hasn't changed anything in relation to women's place in society? and no matter what they do they're re still going to be conforming to the largely sexist ideology of a mans world. I thought that Lindsay wearing what she wore was out of irony? the point being that the only way not to conform to the sexy empowered woman was to cover-up and hide the natural therefore being submissive in what she wears? she couldn't just be herself when all she ever gets is people coming onto her because she is a woman. I thought the point was that feminism hasn't failed its just third wave feminism is so vague it contradicts its self slightly. Might just be how i saw it though.
  • eye
    avatar
    Well said.
  • jz1337
    While women do get the heavier side of it. It feels like a problem with society as a whole. We like to make assumptions about people with little information.
  • Generous Hobo
    Great review!

    I'm sorry that fans had to be...well...the way they were. Sadly, people will be people.

    I'm really tired of female heroes in high heels. Seriously. I can't even walk in them, let alone jump around and kick and stuff.
  • SpeedyEric
    avatar
    I don't really have much negative to say about the Charlie's Angels films. They are self-aware that they're action comedy films treating the sexy ladies as sexy and cute.

    I am SOOOOOO glad that Drew Barrymore and Sick Green went their separate ways.

    9:10- He also played an actor on Friends. Weird.
  • locust19
    The Videos doesn't play anymore when i click on them and appears "advertisement playing", Why??
  • clammy
    I saw this years ago with my roommate in the cinema (she happened to be an feminist lesbian, and i'm only saying that for context).

    We both loved the film for it's abject sillyness AND it's rather obvious over sexualisation of the characters.

    But if you take (For example) a michael bay movie, i watch scenes where he's objectifying women and it makes me feel dirty - like some dirty old man peeping through a hole in the wall learing at some girls bum in transformers 3.

    But here, it's played purely for laughs. They know they're being sexualized and they're laughing at the men who are turned on by it - or think they're being exploited.

    Drew Barrymore was more than a "token" producer role on this, she had a lot of say. And I personally think the sexualization was done as a "screw you" to the system, in effect saying that hollywood has been doing this for years, so lets take it and make it a parody of itself so as to show how stupid it is.

    Hmmm.. I'm not very good at getting my thoughts down in type.. this is why i failed most of my exams - lol.

    But hopefully you get me?
  • rockybalboa211
    avatar
    I also thought that this film was rather silly and that the sexual objectification in the film was done more for laughs than anything else.
  • Catey
    avatar
    OMG Lindsay, that Burqa makes you look sooooo fat :|

    Seriously, I loved this movie when I was little. I wanted to be hot and kick ass at the same time, whilst being a "strong independent woman". Looking at it nowadays, however, makes me cringe at how exploitive and pandering it is. I still think all the actresses are adorable though :) And yes, Sam Rockwell is awesomely cool and is also mega cute in that movie :D

    Also, I'm jealous of Nella's boobs.
  • Goat Boy
    avatar
    You know what "Angel" song they should've used? "Engel" by Rammstein.
  • Hlupton
    I tend to find it kinda entertaining, but I do see your point about fetish and exploitation lol.

    Heheh, nice job ^^
  • ladydiskette
    avatar
    I was hoping she would get around to that Destiny's Child song "Independent Woman" which I admit I used to love to sing along to when I was younger, but now being older I kinda see now how gimmicky it sounds.


    But then, back in those days, think they did try to turn "Girl Power" message into a schitk to appeal to the young teenage female demographic whom probably got dumped already by a guy or were already disenchanted by them in the first place.

    I think the most blantently ridiculous use of the song was when it played in a scene in "The Proud Family" where Penny gets a credit card from her parents and you guessed it, the girls go on a shopping spree with the song playing in the background as Penny is not using her own money but her parent's money to but what she (but mostly her friends want) until the card is maxed out and she gets a credit card bill. Which makes the use of the song about a financially "independent woman" kinda feel dumb and out of place.


    That was when I saw that episode I thought finally that yeah, the song really was kinda silly the way it was trying to appeal to the teen girl demographic and its use of "Girl Power" to the point that would take itself so seriously.
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