Dreamworks Vs. Disney: Rise of the Eyebrow

(329 votes, average 4.64 out of 5)
Comments (245)
  • Fan01  - Tangled
    I saw Tangled today. I really liked it.

    Whether Katzenberg quit or got fired he still stuck it to Disney in a huge way. It's a good thing to cause Dreamworks really gives us a great alternative to Disney.

    So many great animated movies that I remember watching and still watch while in my early 20s. Ah, good times!:D
  • HandsAcrossTheFeet
    The problem is that Dreamworks also made a lot of bad movies, like Road to El Dorado, Spirit, Sinbad, Shark Tale, Over the Hedge, Shrek the Third, Bee Movie, Shrek Forever After, and most recently, the Croods.
  • Annie-Mae
    Great work on pointing out Warner Brothers did do it better. It's a great example of the "tude" look that Disney had to compete with (the term "tude" coined by John K being defined as just that raised eye brow). You could even say that Warner Brothers artists were so edgy they even pushed studios to stop using the realistic Disney Look, and thus Chuck Jones created the UPA style.

    Pretty good overview. The addition of your animation was nice as well. Can't really say I thought of this method of marketing good enough to copy cause it's never appealed for me, but it's a no brainer when you think about it. What they called it was marketing for boys. What I've been calling it false advertising.

    Ha! the most Jack Blackified place on earth...that's pretty tenacious. Great to have you out in CA anyway. The Tiki Room is the best.

    (Update: it was recently announce that Disney will no longer do Fantasy movies, which I don't think will last long but shows that they know it won't bring in the crowds the way that Tangled did)
  • darkclaw1256
    It was also announced by the executives that the LA Times misinterpreted them and that fairy tale movies were still alive and thriving.
  • Hichcoot
    PEOPLE ARE RACIST... That wasn't the reason of why the Princess and the frog wasn't all that successfull.

    The reasons were

    1 Horrible trailer

    2 2D movies are not as appealing as CG animated movies anymore.

    3 It was released almost the same time as Avatar was... so yeah, go figure!
  • tinkerhell
    Agreed. I actually love 2D animation - I'd go so far as to say I prefer it - but I'm well aware that I'm in a VERY small minority, and have a good 20 years on the target audiences for these movies. And I didn't even want to see The Princess and the Frog until I watched Chester A Bum's review of it (funnily enough). I thought it was okay, but really? I'd say part of the reason it did poorly was that it was badly marketed and just wasn't that good. Visually it was an interesting change, and like anyone with a brain I appreciated the lesson of "wishing doesn't do crap, you have to work for what you want, and that's not a bad thing," but the music was mediocre and the characters were boring.

    Still, it was better than a lot of successful Disney movies, so maybe I put too much stock in the idea of good movies doing well. Given Avatar's runaway success...yeah, maybe it just flopped because it wasn't marketed aggressively or well, and because no one really gave a shit when they could be going to see Dances with Smurfs.
  • Ricamros
    I always though us 2d animation/cartoon fans are the majority, because wherever I go in the world of films I hear the average audience member complaining about CGI taking over the animation. Hell, I've thought it was ugly since Toy Story came out and I was 4 years old at the time(and I still haven't seen Toy Story).
    I would be the happiest girl on earth if Disney kept doing their old school animations about fairytales and animals and such. That would probably rule in 3d too, more than CGI movies, or at least that's how I imagine remembering how awesome drawn things look in 3d with my view master toy thing.
    (I am yet to see a 3d movie and I am not looking forward to my inevitable first time one day.)
  • Spongeman25  - Damn Avatar
    Sad thing is that Princess and the Frog was a vastly superior movie, had many more charming and interesting characters and didn't rely on graphics. But sadly, the people of today are all about appearances. Avatar just had a breast enlargement ok? It's all FAKE. For some reason, fake sells these days.
  • LadyMima
    Avatar went well because of its amazing 3D. But then along came How To Train Your Dragon and Avatar was left in the dust.
  • ZeldaTheSwordsman
    2.They're actually not. In fact, that it WAS 2D was one of the selling points.
  • HandsAcrossTheFeet
    1. I kinda liked the trailers.
    2. The reason no one sees 2D movies anymore is because no one makes them. Disney did it to boost its nostalgia factor. Maybe kids didn't see it, but that's because this generation grew up totally unaware of anything that came out before 1998.
    3. It was far superior to Avatar. Also, PatF came out like a month before.
  • TickledPink
    Apparently the princess movies are just on hiatus since they haven't had any fresh ideas for a fairytale since Tangled completed production, which is understandable, as they used up a lot of the classic tales in the 90's. I hope it doesn't last too long. I'm sure there are some forgotten fairy tales they can dig up.
  • Blues
    I would love a disney version of the Snow Queen tale.
  • Deimos1984rd
    Man there was so much I didn't know, thanks.

    You know I've always wondered what SKG stood for.
  • burntzoe
    Very insightful review, Lindsay. I've always pondered this sort of thing myself, only not in such an articulate manner. :P
  • Drake666
    Nice. Really interesting.
  • SpeedyEric

    The Tangled poster doesn't show much about the movie, does it?

    2:33- I just love the look you gave to Nella here, Lindsay. LOVE.

    4:38- OF COURSE!

    I haven't seen "Prince of Eygpt," but I've seen "Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron."

    I just realized that "Megamind" is to DreamWorks, like "The Incredibles" is to Disney/Pixar.

    When I was in Disney World almost 9 years ago, I had just as fun as Nella was in Disneyland.

    "Antz" is spelled with a Z instead of an S, BECAUSE POOR LITERACY IS KEWL!
    I thought MegaMind was the answer to Despicable Me.
  • Loneheart
    Despicable Me was a Dreamworks movie. Last time I looked Dreamworks was not fighting themselfe XD.
  • AlucardsQuest
    @Loneheart Despicable Me is not Dreamworks. It is a work from a former Blue Sky studios (Ice Age, Robots, Horton) animation story artist Chris Renaud. He is currently working for Illumination Entertainment under Universal on Despicable Me's sequel and probably Dr. Seuss's The Lorax.
  • BBboy
    Despicable Me is from Universal.
  • SybilWolf
    Actually, "Despicable Me" is by Fox Animation: the same studio that gave us "Ferngully"(ugh!) and the "Ice Age" movies.

    It IS their Piece de Resistance, nevertheless! Took me by surprise how good it was considering the crap that studio has spewed.
  • ArtticWitchica
    Funny. I'm in California right now visiting my grandma XD
  • foxbomber5
    I call shenanigans on your saying the hair fight scene in the Tangled trailer never happened. It did . . . just not as quickly as it did in the trailer, and thankfully not to that music.
  • Rockabore
    Well they were similar, but Lindsay's right, the fight scene was different from the one in the movie and it didn't happen that way. It played up more of a modern-y slapstick vibe kind of like Shrek.

    Just look at the music for one thing, it was an upbeat Pink song pretty much everybody knows from a few years back that made the movie out to be modern and edgy. It was a really great movie but it seems like it was more like Aladdin or The Little Mermaid than it was to Shrek.
  • joneau261
    That's pretty much what it came down to last month. I saw both "Megamind" and "Tangled", and I throughly enjoyed both of them. I was happy that they took conventions and spun them around to make something much different from the expected.

    Still, I probably had some bias. I saw "Megamind" on opening day, and pretty much left it at that. I saw "Tangled" twice on opening weekend. And I've been listening to the soundtrack ever since then. I intend to see it again this weekend. I suppose something struck the right note.

    While I could understand that Disney would take a different approach to marketing, it did baffle me as to why they would represent the movie as something completely different from what we got. It didn't detract from the movie, but it really felt off. But it seems to have paid off since it managed to beat "Harry Potter" anyway. The trailers made after the official one were much better anyway.

    (Random note, why is Disney releasing "Winnie the Pooh" against "Harry Potter 8"? It probably won't stop the two from making money, but it still seems like an odd choice.)

    As for "Megamind", they actually did a good job at spoiling a lot of what would have made for some great shocks in the story. Either they marketed it as a screwball comedy, or they spoiled half of the plot. It seemed like one they couldn't win. Though playing AC/DC in the trailer was enough reason for me to go anyway.

    It's a tough market out there, and there are some neat approaches to get people in the seats. Personally, the "wacky comedy" style trailer has become so overused that I've grown tired of it. That's why I was happy with the trailer for "Winnie the Pooh", as it felt like it was going back to its roots (and possibly Disney's first theatrical reboot). In next year's animated sequels, it's the only one that stands out. That and "Rango", but that was just... whoa.

    So yes, thank you Nostalgia Chick for getting me back into my animation thought process for the month. This is going to be a fun holiday season.

    (And the video was pretty good too :-) )
  • Marshmallowcreampie
    Disney was originally going to market "Tangled" as the usual Disney Princess flick. It was even just going to be called "Rapunzel". But with "The Princess and the Frog" not doing as well as they hoped, combined with the fact that Disney has been losing their male audience due to their heavy focus on female oriented shows and movies they decided to change the title and market it as a goofy, action-adventure film. When Hannah Montana became popular, Disney decided to start making imitation shows (fame-centered shows with singing female leads) to suck off as much of it's popularity as they could. Any other show that wasn't Phineas and Pherb got the axe. In the process, they pretty much killed their male audience. They're trying to rectify that by buying out the bankrupt Marvel Comics company, changing the Toon Disney Channel to Disney XD, and of course, going for a different marketing approach with their movies.

    On a side note... Nostalgia Chick, Dreamworks loves to lie at least a little in their ads for their animated movies. Shrek 4 was a LOT more serious than the ads led on. (this has been happening with their other animated movies as well. While many of them do have the slapstick, it's rarely as much as the ad leads on.) How To Train Your Dragon (great film, btw) made it look like the villagers accepted dragons immediately, even though *SPOILER* they didn't really get that until like, the last twenty minutes of the film. And like you pointed out, it happened with Megamind.
  • HalJordan
    "When Hannah Montana became popular, Disney decided to start making imitation shows (fame-centered shows with singing female leads) to suck off as much of it's popularity as they could. Any other show that wasn't Phineas and Pherb got the axe. In the process, they pretty much killed their male audience. They're trying to rectify that by buying out the bankrupt Marvel Comics company,"

    Most of your post isn't true(the idea that they pretty much killed their male audience is probably accurate). First, Marvel Comics hasn't been bankrupt for years. Second, what other "fame-centered show with a singing female lead" did Disney create besides 'Sonny With a Chance'? Third, other shows that were not Phineas and Pherb did not get the axe.
  • Grimfang
    the nc has lost her funny
  • Destroy
    I couldn't disagree more. And it's disheartening that your comment currently has 5 thumbs up.
  • mrrubino
    Don't mention that. He'll only get thumbs down and then come back to bitch about it because people always bitch on this site when they get thumbs-down. He'll go on about hive-minds and abusive mods and blah blah blah, because they always do.
  • mrrubino
    Case in point:

    Waaaaah! I got thumbs-down! It's like if you don't go along with the hive-mind around here, and you try to give an unpopular opinion, you get attacked. And the abusive mods allow this to happen.
  • AlucardsQuest
    @Grimfang Actually I couldn't disagree more. In fact I think that her writing has much improved since the last several lack-luster videos NChick.

    This is much less snobbish and felt more like 2 movie nerds discussing concepts down to a level where anyone can understand it. Very fascinating ladies, please continue along these lines!
  • QuestionTheMajority
    I actually agree 100% Does it make any sense to say that the Nostalgia Chick has become too girly? That's my wife's complaint about her videos. Whereas she used to provide a fun review series representing the points of view of female nerds, it's like she's now just decided to embody all of the annoying stereotypes of women, alternating between the "women are arrogant bitches who are better than everyone" and the "women are empty-headed morons who can't keep their minds focused on a single thing for four seconds." My wife finds her latest videos to be utterly obnoxious and I have to say I agree with her.

    As for this one, it was okay, but she ultimately ruined it with another "Tee-hee! I'm a brainless dimwit! Disneyland!" routine.
  • ceru sanju
    I didn't know nerdy women couldn't be girly, or that women have to fit into your little moulds to be "acceptable", instead of being themselves and doing what they like. If that includes being a nerd AND liking pretty things, then there's nothing wrong with that. :/

    Saying otherwise is actually pretty sexist and un-feminist.
  • TheBrigeedaRocks
    Sorry, I'm still a Disney girl at heart.

    Dreamworks tries their best, no doubt, but they always kind of fall about a mile short of Disney. Like they're trying so hard to make everything an instant classic that it just falls short. A lot.

    I am very disappointed that there will be no more 2D Disney movies after Princess and the Frog. I really am getting tired of the deluge of CGI/3D movies at this point.

    EDIT: Sorry, forgot about Pooh Bear getting another 2D movie. Maybe the silly old bear will make Disney rethink the 2D abandonment?
  • Cinnamon Scudworth
    As they said earlier...poor Pooh is competing against the final Harry Potter, so 2D animation is toast.

    They made this same mistake with Princess and the Frog by slotting it against Avatar.
  • August M.
    Actually, Disney wants one year 2D, next year 3D, year after 2D again, and so on.
  • S-3  - I Hope So...
    I hope Disney honors that likely rumor...

    Think of how many people would follow suit, and how many animation enthusiasts would be pleased otherwise.

    Hell, more things Dreamworks could learn a thing or two from if they truly cared about the people they're supposed to entertain, which be a movie's purpose...

    I'm sorry, August M. That sounds awesome, but it may be a rumor you just picked up. Otherwise, that sounds brilliant if they know how to balance their budget and know who to entertain for anything to work out at all...
  • Marshmallowcreampie
    I agree. While the latest Disney films haven't usually been as good, overall the company is amazing with animation. Dreamworks, however, is pretty hit-or-miss.
  • QuestionTheMajority
    I actually think they don't try hard enough to make classics. Instead, they try to damn hard to say "HEY! REMEMBER THAT SHOW THAT CAME ON LAST NIGHT? DID YOU SEE IT? WE SAW IT TOO! THAT'S WHY WE'RE QUOTING IT! WE'RE COOL!" It repulses me. But then, Disney's been doing the same damn thing.
  • FliggleBobbin  - Emperor vs. El Dorado and etc.
    Why did I never make this connection?!

    Very nice video.
    I'm more preferable to Disney myself, but there are some good Dreamworks films.
  • Cinnamon Scudworth
    You never made that connection because it's not true. At the time El Dorado was in development, New Groove was actually "Kingdom of the Sun," a serious Incan epic. It was flipped around to the funny side after it wasn't working as a drama, and it was almost canned entirely. In addition....Mesoamerica and Spain are two different places. It's just a real strain to connect these films together, I think.

    But Antz? That was totally an attempt to bring Pixar down by getting a bug movie out before theirs. Antz was announced by Katzenberg one week after Bug's Life was announced by Pixar. They knew exactly what they were doing.

    It's interesting "The Wild" was included, as it's the reverse -- Disney ripping off Dreamworks.
  • Marshmallowcreampie
    Regarding The Wild... People are really confused about that movie and Madagascar. The Wild was actually in works before Madagascar was, but the latter was released earlier. Just as well, The Wild sucked. Madagascar was at least a pretty fun movie.
  • Taufiq91
    Great points Lindsay.

    However, you forgot one thing that Disney has that can trump Dreamworks financially:

    Disney releases Studio Ghibli films outside Japan.

    Most of Ghibli's anime films are released by Disney uncut and unedited (since Miyazaki can chop off Disney's balls with a sword according to Japanator.com), and thus financially Disney has gained the attention of otakus and kids by releasing Ghiblis'a animes like Spirited Away and Ponyo into American market.

    And it works as a marketing move against Dreamworks.

    And if you noticed, that minimalist poster in Tangled is based on the minimalism of Ghibli's posters from Ponyo to Ghost in the Shell 2.

    So, Ghiblis has helped Disney unofficially in it's fight against Dreamworks (and in some ways, Warner Bros.)

    If you count Ghibli next to Pixar and Disney in terms of finanical distributions, Disney wins.

    Speaking of which, i think Japan did better in "the Dreamworks face" by making One Piece and The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. Seriously, both have characters making Dreamworks faces in posters, but both have a better fanbase than Dreamworks has, and better plots and storylines (minus Endless Eight).
  • Marshmallowcreampie
    GHIBLI IS GOD. Seriously, though, the fact that they distribute Ghibli films unedited (EVEN POM POKO! 8D) makes up for their god-awful Disney Channel programming.
  • Rmeddy  - People are Racist
    Ha, that was flashed so quick at the 8 minute.
  • itbegins2005
    Congrats on an insightful and very thorough examination of the Disney/Dreamworks feud! The thought put into how each company both conceptualizes and markets their projects, and how the changes in those processes signify shifts in audience tastes, would probably be the solid foundation of a sociology paper; it's interesting stuff!

    Personally, I very much hate Disney. Not only because of the material they distribute, mind you- I'm not at all in Disney's target demographics, so my dislike of their films shouldn't be a surprise to anyone- but because of the hypocrisy of selling themselves on the image of Walt Disney himself. A conglomerated corporation distributing product to consumers around the globe can not and should not present themselves as a moral authority, and their use of Walt Disney as a symbolic figurehead of their operation seems too close to propaganda for comfort. Disney is a business trying to disguise themselves as a trusted friend, their founder presented as a surrogate father or a kindly old uncle to children (or rather, paying customers) everywhere; this sort of gross manipulation of public opinion honestly fills me with revulsion. At least Dreamworks is presenting themselves as they are: providers of entertainment. Maybe that's why audiences today prefer stories with pop culture references that break down the fourth wall-- there's an honesty to self-reflexivity that's refreshing after decades of fairy-tale artifice.

    (Man, do I miss Warner Bros.'s cartoons, though- Chuck Jones was THE formative influence in my childhood...)
  • S-3  - COLD. HARD. TRUTH.
    Both regimes have faults. THAT INCLUDES DISNEY. I wish people thought more like you on that regard with that anti-conglomerate statement, though.

    I don't like all of Disney's works either. I know for a fact when greed ISN'T corrupting Dreamworks' minds, THEY DO turn out GOOD, if not, awesome movies, especially when they're not sequels (not implying all sequels are or will be bad if they should happen, but it's cardinal reality that they're never as good as the first/original...).
  • QuestionTheMajority
    Let us not forget what a hypocrite Disney himself was. Bitter, twisted, and prejudiced. Actually had some connections with the Nazi party during World War II. Believed that rich, white people deserved to be the predominant class while all others should be delegated to servant positions. When told that most of his employees were actually being paid under the legal amount and were starving and unable to pay bills, he specifically said "To Hell with them." What a sweet guy old Uncle Walt was!
  • DGray5100
    Wait, where did you get this information? What I know is that Disney himself never was anti-Semitic because it cannot be proven. He was against the unions of course but he was never that cruel.
  • Lucia32
    He was not an anti-semite (in fact, he drew numerous anti-nazism cartoons during the war). That rumor started because an anti-communist group he was with eventually became anti-semitic (Walt left them when he learned this and in fact, he was one of the guys who called them out on it).

    He wasn't a completely nice guy, but then again no one who gets that rich ever is. For example, Bill Gates has a list of people he's screwed over and lives he's destroyed so long that he could stretch it across Canada twice.

    But a Nazi? Nah. Not Walt.
  • Alfred Mordeir
    Did anyone else see "NChick: DW vs. Disney" and think it had something to do with the Distressed Watcher? eh, probably just me.
  • TheBrigeedaRocks
    I almost didn't watch it because I thought it was a Distressed Watcher collab.
  • Ppleater
    I like both. In fact, maybe the reason they give us good movies is BECAUSE of their competitive angle. They have to be good to beat each other, so we get good movies. At least, that's what I'd like to think.
    But there is no competition. Pixar (via Disney) kicks Dreamwork's ass every time.
  • JSleeper
    Enjoyable video and pretty much spot on. Walt Disney always made me think of a used car salesman with that thin mustache of his. There was a lot of talent and vision there, but at the same time... it was very much by rote. There was a corporate single-mindedness in Disney's works and it showed. Disney treats their works like they're Really Special.

    Compare it to what came out of Termite Terrace. If Disney was filet mignon to enjoy occasionally then WB toons were a good burger you have a couple times per week.

    Dreamworks has improved a lot, though they quickly succumb to sequalitis (Shrek 2 was good, though). Kung Fu Panda and How to Train Your Dragon both have a barrage of sequels coming.
  • whatever42
    You know, I never really realized it, but you are absolutely right about that rise of the eyebrow. Almost every movie poster Dreamworks showed did have that. That's really quite interesting, although Dreamworks copying from Pixar and Disney I've known about for a while.

    That's not to say that Dreamworks can't have good movies sometimes. They can, but not consistently. That's probably why I love Pixar so freaking much. It's always good with them, at least in my opinion.

    Anyway, good video Lindsay. Glad to see the new season, so to speak, is still going strong with informative and entertaining videos like this one.
  • LordNifty

    What's with the subliminal "People are racist" message? Are you trying to trick people into being racist, or is there some deeper, more malevolent part of your plan? I'm watching you. >:|


    By the way, that was sort of a Simpsons non sequitur ending at the end there.
  • baconsoap64
    by that, she was saying that people didn't go see the movie because having a black princess IS HORRIBLE BEYOND ALL COMPRESSION!!! -___-; (stupid racist people)
  • badgersprite
    Wow. This was great. The Point/Counterpoint structure with you and Nella worked really well, especially considering that's basically a mirror of the Disney/Dreamworks thing anyway. I loved that. Very clever.

    And your commentary is totally on the money. I'm not even going to lie, the first time I saw the Tangled promotional material, I swore it was a Dreamworks movie. I literally said to myself, "Wow, so soon after Megamind? Another--wait..."

    ...By the way, I'm eventually going to steal your job and do a Disney retrospective reviewing every movie they've ever done. KTHNXBAI.
  • Blotto
    Aside from this review(which was long awaited and very much on par with what I would expect from our Nostalgia Chick.)...I find myself strangely attracted(Well..not too strangely) to Nella. She, in tropey terms, is a kinda of The Pollyanna/The Messiah/Cosplay Otaku Chick who loves all things nerdy, she is our NChick's anchor to the nerd community. She is a must have for her series.

    All-in-all..Great review, I hope to see more.
  • tecpaocelotl
    You live in LA? Cool. We're kind of close to each other.

    A friend of my gf is coming to Cali for Disney, but also wants to see my gf while she's down here.

    Alright. Puss & Boots gets his own movie.

    I seen the large distribution in LA. What I thought was funny was the advertising for the film "A Day Without A Mexican". That freaked my sister out. LOL.
  • trlkly
    The thing is, Disney's stuff has longevity. There's a reason why most people don't notice the similarities between Looney Toons and Dreamworks: nobody gets the cultural jokes anymore.

    That said, I'm not sure longevity really helps, especially when it comes to comedy. At least Disney got out the Emporer's New Groove without it seeming dated.
  • Kitsunefan
    Very interesting video , raised stuff I never even thought of, look forward to more!
  • nurr

    You were literally 4 miles AWAY from me and I DIDNT get to say HI D: SAD FACE!!!
  • TamLin
    That was, once again, refreshingly insightful. Btw, am I being anal-retentive for being annoyed when people refer to an editorial as a "review"?

    I was really surprised by how conventional of a movie Tangled was, particularly in light of its offbeat marketing (and by "offbeat" I mean terrible). I guess, and I'm referencing Wikipedia here, which is almost never a good idea, that Tangled has its roots in a period eight years ago when Disney really did want to produce a Shrek-style movie.

    If you're wondering why they changed their mind in the ensuing decade of development, well, then you probably haven't watched Shrek lately.
  • NegaJoe  - Hmm........
    All I know is I'm tired of all these animated characters giving me the People's Eyebrow. C'mon man, that stopped being popular ten years ago.
  • TheBlackMage
    Dammit I was expecting to see Distressed Watcher vs Disney!
  • Fredaintdead
    Me too. That would be awesome.
  • pocky-san
    that would've made my day XD
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