MarzGurl Reviews Final Fantasy XIII - Episode 3

(44 votes, average 4.91 out of 5)
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Comments (137)
  • JayDogV45  - First
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    Love your reviews marzgurl! Do you and spoony ever compare notes about what has become wrong with this series? PS what's your favorite Final Fantasy game in the core series?
  • Furrama
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    They wouldn't have to compare notes, they're playing the same crappy game with blindingly obvious issues. They're probably going to have the same gripes.
  • xen999
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    They certainly both made similar points. However I like how Spoony deconstructs the story and tears it a new hole, and hopefully Marzgurl will get to that in the next parts. When I play a game, the way I see things is story > game mechanics. I can be very forgiving of gameplay issues if the story is mind-blowing, so I'm always first and foremost interested to know if it holds up or fails miserably in that department. And in that respect, FFVIII, FFX, FFX-2 and FFXIII are huge failures in my book.
  • ThirtySix
    Spoony fails at reviewing FF 13, because he brings up some of the most stupid points I have ever heard, and it makes me feel like he was drunk when he wrote the script, for example "The crystarium, does how they level up, what is it? Do they know it exist? Where is it? Do they know they level up? " "A jacket, where is it made, do everyone wants one, are they commercially available?" IT MAKES IT LOOK LIKE HE IS SAYING THESE THINGS BECAUSE IT'S A PERFECT GAME AND HE IS HAVING TO PULL POINTS ON WHY IT'S BAD RIGHT OUT OF HIS ASS! Which he doesn't! MarzGurl is a REAL FF fan, doing a REAL review. And I doubt she will make a complete IDIOT by saying sorry for hating or what she said later.
  • xen999
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    A lot of his comments are meant for comedic effect, dont take them so seriously... Besides, he has openly admitted in the first video that his mind is overly nitpicky for these sort of things and he just can't help it. And a lot of that stuff really does make no sense even within the game world. A lot of people can dismiss these things pretty easily, others not so much.

    And what does being a *real* fan have to do with reviewing a game or a product? In fact that might just make you a bit biased about the subject matter. But whatever, both have a different approach and there's really nothing wrong with that.
  • ThirtySix
    His mind being over-nit picky just sounds like another excuse just like his depression caused him to make those "offensive" joke, not to mention he never showed that same nit pick in his other reviews, and it makes no sense, but does a level up menu really have to? Along with a jacket, etc? I was half expecting him to say "the pause menu, what is it, how does it work, do they know the world has stopped, if I leave it on will they age?" And you can hardly even say it was for comedic effect when he constantly does it and, severely bashes the game for it.
    I like Spoony but cmon,as said the game is bad enough he doesn't have to do that dumb stuff.
  • 557deadpool
    1. Doug and Brad have made worse jokes but no one gets anal.

    2. Yes, yes he has. Show me 1 review where he didn't nitpick a lot.

    3. Now you're just being stupid with your "criticisms." Fact is Spoony and Marzgirl's styles are totally different and should be taken as such.
  • Sewblon
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    Spoony's review is more focused on whats wrong with the plotting and story of the game and MarzGurl's review is so far more focused on whats wrong with the design and production of the game. So it isn't really entirely fair to compare the two reviews.
  • LikaLaruku
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    Marzgurl's running for the "King of the Nerds" season 2 casting, if anyone wants to vote for her.

    Hmm...Neverwinter Online got rid of MP too, of course if you were soloing as a mage, you'd get your ass handed to you with mana drain, but that's soloing.

    It will be a cold day in hell before anyone defends the leveling & upgrading system in this game.
  • Cinnamon Scudworth
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    I dunno. Marzgurl is far from King (or Queen) of the Nerds. She doesn't dress in a cheesy costume and pretend to fight herself. If Linkara would run, he'd get into the Top 5 easy.
  • Archedgar
    It's great that this came now because I just watched the second video of your series.

    I hold firm that you should not be revealing your chest, it's not necessary. It cheapens your video in a way that is completely unnecessary. Aside from that, good job.

    I'm really digging your analytical style in these videos and I could totally see you starting a whole video series based on this premise. I.e. I would watch and I know many others who would watch too.
    +1
  • Sewblon
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    I do not think that she was revealing her chest anymore than most women do in this video.
  • Furrama
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    Never tell anyone how to dress unless they ask. Or you're their mother. It never goes well otherwise.

    If you wouldn't say something face to face don't face roll it in a comment box.
  • Archedgar
    @Furrama
    How many maidens have you rescued today, Mr. White knight?
    /rolleyes

    Not everyone is a... for lack of a better term; desperate loser like you. Giving her legitimate feedback on her videos is what these comment sections are for, and my feedback is that her analytical style is great but doesn't go well with letting her tits hang out, she doesn't need to go for the "LOL BOOBZ FTW" crowd in a serious set of videos especially when the videos can clearly stand on their own merit.

    Pfeh, manginas be mangina'ing.
  • Sewblon
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    "Pfeh, manginas be mangina'ing." (Initiate sarcasm) Real mature. (Terminate Sarcasm).
  • Furrama
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    * Mrs. White Knight.

    I'll gladly play the roll. I'm tired of seeing women reviewers being told how to dress, that they're not dressed enough, that they have ulterior motives, whathaveyou. _I_ didn't notice her chest until you pointed it out, so odds are the problem is with you.
  • LikaLaruku
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    Hey guyz, thanks for turning the entire first page into a useless Youtube argument.

    Yes I know, I'm bad for contributing. IGNORE ME!
  • Creature SH
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    I'll stop you right there, Archedgar.
    She is not "revealing her chest". She is wearing clothing that she is comfortable with. You don't have the right to tell her not to. Nobody does. It cheapens nothing. Stop.
  • Archedgar
    @Creature SH
    I know reading comprehension is traditionally low in the mangina community, but surely you are able to understand basic concepts? I never told her she "has no right". In fact, I never mentioned the concept of "rights" in any of my posts. Having her tits hanging out is 100% her choice and the choice cannot and should not be taken away from her. If a woman wishes to dress that way, that's on her.

    With that stated;
    (Again) I gave feedback in relation to her video series. A serious, analytical set of videos doesn't need to try to appeal to the "OMG TITZ FTW" crowd. It really really doesn't. The content and material can stand on its own merit, therefore, I believe the videos would be better without the pandering.
    This is called "Constructive Criticism", I know manginas and white knights believe women are human garbage and /cannot/ be subject to even the slightest scrutiny, but I have a different ideology, I believe women have the capacity for rational thought, even if you disagree.

    Perhaps you should read my posts as many times as is necessary for you to understand what I am saying...
    Don't worry, the text isn't going anywhere, take as long as you need.
    gg'd son
  • Creature SH
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    No, you don't understand. You are trying to police what a woman does with her own body. Whether you are applying soft or hard pressure is irrelevant. Just stop.
  • Archedgar
    Heh, manginas be mangina'ing.

    L2Rational thought. gg.
  • Xephon0930  - Anita Sarkeesian Called.....
    ....and all I am hearing from you is "waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Sexist!!!!"


    Grow a pair and stop being so sensitive. This is why modern Feminism can't be taken seriously as they feel they have to bitch about everything to stay relevant.
  • Mia
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    "This is why modern Feminism can't be taken seriously as they feel they have to bitch about everything to stay relevant"

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Maybe you and Archdegar should check your heads - I think your fedoras might be sitting just a little too tight :)
  • Xephon0930  - To Mia
    If you mean the treatment of equal rights between sexes, then Feminism isn't the right word for it.

    It hasn't been for a while now seeing that nowadays, it is good to be a woman seeing how in media, men are looked down upon as children with the only thing being mature is their bodies. Just look at some of the commercials of today if one is anal retentive enough to look.

    Then there are custody cases where if both parents are fighting over the rights of custody, a lot of cases go to the woman. Don't get me started on child support and alimony.

    Sure, there are still things that are messed up like women getting less pay in office jobs statistically speaking but part of my quip with Arch's "White Knight" attitude is that it sounds much lime the over-entitled nature and the poor me attitude that most modern Feminists have adopted over time.

    I mean, some of this can be compared with affirmative action where certain groups of people are hired not because of experience and other attractive qualities of a potential employee but rather the race and ethnicity of the person in question.

    So before you start with the character assassinations and assuming that I don't know what I am talking about, try to give your own reason why you had to butt in this conversation and thereby derailing completely.
    I am just fine. In case you didn't know, I was responding to Arch's stupidity and I do not wish to engage in unnecessary conflict with anyone else.
  • Bearwalk
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    Umm... Have you actually looked up the word "feminism" in a dictionary? It means exactly what you say it doesn't mean. "The theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes". (Webster's)
  • MSueSlayer
    calling someone mangina is gender-policing-- suggesting that someone is being "less of a man" by having a "vagina"--as being female is undesirable. You obviously don't have a proper counter-argument so you resort to name-calling.

    Marzgurl is making these videos as entertainment (or edu-tainment), not for appealing to men in terms of what's considered "decent" or "indecent." She can dress however she wants and doesn't need your approval in terms of "modesty" or "fap-ability"
  • Xephon0930
    Exactly. That is what I have been as well others have been arguing with Arch about. That and he might as well call us faggots since mangina is always a slur against people of a different sexual preference.
  • Hardin
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    Easy o noble white knight.
  • Fantomn33t
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    While I haven't played ff13, I have played Ni No Kuni and from how you described the Paradigm system it seems that Ni No Kuni does what FF 13 intended to do with an "auto combat ally" set up, except it is done MUCH better in Ni No Kuni.
  • Heart-Lightning
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    not really, they just don't show the amount of attacks. FF13 shows this with the ATB gauge and Ni No Kuni does not. I counted 4-5 times in which the little familiars auto attacked on it's own before timing out.

    Ni No Kuni left you wondering how many attacks you could do and tricked you into thinking it was a better system
  • Fantomn33t
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    it was based on your familiars attack speed, faster speed meant more swings during the auto attack cycle.
    a side choice is you could cancel the cycle (thought it would be on cooldown of course) if need be to cycle a different familiar or some other command.
  • Heart-Lightning
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    I'm going to counter most of this video with simple logic

    Paradigm: You have to remember that the majority of console RPG's these days don't let you fully control all 3 players.Mass Effect, Xenoblade Chronicles, Kingdom Hearts, Dot Hack, Tales Series, FF vs 13, The Last Story, Nier, Star Ocean.

    Yes you have such games as Ni No Kuni and maybe Persona (5) (if it ever comes out) that let you control all 3 characters but most console RPGs don't let you do. Why should FF13 be berated for such design when many other RPG's have evolved to doing so?

    They actually did add stagger meters to the characters. If you constantly heal yourself over and over, one shows up and starts increasing your meter. Heal too much and you will be vulnerable.

    Auto Attack:
    The fanboy's persistent whining of "press X to kill monsters" is bull shit. Even if you had to press X, there is still the L1 button to activate the Paradigm Shift, up and down to move it, Triangle button to make moves attack automatically even if the bar isn't fully raised, O button to delete attacks and R1 button to check for notes that are underneath the stats screen. However, pressing X isn't the best choice if you want to 5 star all the fights and get the maximum CP. In auto battle you can only 0-3 star fights max with the rare 5 star if the enemy is weak. If you choose your own abilities, you can 5-4 star most of your fights. That in turn provides the Max CP

    Boss fights:
    Most boss fights for me took 5-8 minutes to beat. Then again, I leveled the fuck out of my character's 3 class stats so we might have had a different experience.

    Persona 3 did such a thing about losing after the MC lost so I don't see your argument.

    Make it Easier:
    You really shouldn't have avoided most of those battles. No wonder it took so long for you to beat those boss fights! You inconvenienced yourself!

    So what if you can touch a save point and heal? Lots of other RPGs do that like Kingdom HEarts and Ni No Kuni and they are good games!

    Linearity isn't the problem, It was the lack of an overworld to break up the linearity. There are many RPG's out there that implement Liniarity to their finest in dungeuons (Mass Effect, Ni No Kuni, etc) but break up this control with an Overworld. FF13 just needed an overworld and nobody would be complaining.

    Took me 20-21 hours to get to Grand Pulse. Again, really inconveniencing yourself by not fighting Marz. and on pulse, you spend another 20 hours there.

    Like most RPG's again? I'm playing Ni No Kuni right now and it's basically "Broken hearted person, fight monster, collect item" side quests. It's not really that bad. Also, you got to ride a Pulse vehicle with Hope and play Chase the Chocobo with Sazh. Also, Fang and Vanille's robot Dog gives you prizes for getting certain items. Item quests.
  • Heart-Lightning
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    Crystalithium:
    The leveling up system is too streamlined. It's the only thing I agree with you.

    Towns:
    Bohdhum, Nautalis, Palumpolum, Paadra, Oerba, New Eden, Tajjin's Tower. You're welcome.

    Save points:
    Save points have existed in games before. FF1-7's exist because they allow you to pull tents and sleeping bags out while in dungeons. Besides, it was real convenient buying accessories, potions, selling weapons, and upgrading (little materials first, then mid, then huge to get max leveling up strength on said items)

    DOES NOBODY READ THE MANUAL AT ALL!?!?! They put these things in here for a reason. Score: Base at 10000. Read at page 34 of the manual

    Again, most complaints are easily rebutted.
  • Powercow1337
    If Heart-Lightning thinks those places (especially Taijin's Tower) count as towns, then you've got the loosest definition of "town" I've ever seen. You don't get to explore or wander around in any of those places to any notable extent. Nautilus got me all excited when I first got there, thinking I hit the Golden Saucer of this world. Nope. It was just another hallway, and the sidequest you seem to think actually counts as a sidequest (running around looking for Chocobo while listening to that god-awful voiced Chocobo theme) was more irritating than anything. It wasn't like you chased him on rides, went behind the scenes at the park for any fun or exciting antics, you ran around in a grassy circle for a minute and watched it fly off, only for you to find it again immediately and have it leave.

    And the point about save points healing being a bad thing: I think FFX hit the closest balance it could. Save points were far enough apart that you didn't want to be too reckless or waste your MP on every single fight (early on anyway.) Earlier FF games made you really think about having to conserve your MP or to use it to quickly blow away a group of enemies. In FFXIII you can blow your load every single fight and it won't matter. This cheapens the value of the really epic maneuvers like Army of One or Highwind when you just spam it over and over during trash fights. You didn't spam Omnislash to wipe out a group of basic Shinra soldiers, you'd never use Flare to waste a group of basic Flans, etc. In this game, you did the equivalent of it. It felt really silly and really boring.

    Now, I did enjoy the combat system overall, largely because I simply refused (on my second playthrough, first one I quit out of disgust pretty much when they first became L'cie because the story up to then was so nonsensical) to use Auto-battle ever. But I shouldn't have to handicap myself to get any sort of enjoyment out of the game.

    Also, the comment about how "FF13 just needed an overworld and nobody would be complaining." Well yeah, no shit. "Guys, if this game wasn't ridiculously linear, then you wouldn't complain that it's ridiculously linear!"

    Oh and one last note, in the Tales series, I can control exactly what all of my allies do in every single fight. If you don't think you can control your allies in that game, then you're sadly mistaken. Oh, and you got to play FFv13? Damn, someone should have told the entire rest of the world that game was out.
  • Souledge94  - save points
    I feel save points have become old fasioned and rather have the option of save anywhere. Its doesint make a game more challenging that a save point is over here and the other is way over there. Its just makes it a chore to get to one place to another. Also the fact if I want to stop cause I have to go somewhere in my actual life I need to travel to this one far away point to save my game so my time wouldint be wasted.

    Im happy to see more jrpg devs put this in thier games since its a better direction to go.

    Also the lack of mp doesint cheapen anything.Only difference is insted of after a fight using mp potions I dont have to thus cutting out some fat.
  • Heart-Lightning
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    Towns are places that have buildings and where people lived or once lived at. A game with "no towns" would mean the exclusion of said places. People live or once lived in those places (Tajjin's Tower was said to be a Monk Dynasty)

    Kingdom Hearts as evolved beyond the MP system. IN fact, the best battle system (Birth By Sleep) takes that out for a deck system. While the spells do recharge, that's no different than a ATB gauge bit charging in FF13. The HP bar re-healing yourself makes it far better on my wallet in the game. I have had so many times in which I have to empty my wallet just to get a butt load of potions and MP restorers. I felt like I was wasting money to a degree where I could have been spending it on a Phoenix Down or accessories that mattered.

    My point is, you can keep the linearity, but just add in an overworld. The linearity is still there, but you are just adding 1 small thing. To make the game not ridiculously linear is to change at least 10 maps into something completely different!

    1 Overworld addition is better than 10 map changes in the amount of time, work, money and efficiency of development.

    FFvs13 is Kingdom Hearts style combat. I don't seem to recall controlling all 3 players at once in KH. And we are getting a taste of that with Lightning Returns, where you control only ONE CHARACTER. Hmm, I wonder what the battle system will be like in Versus XIII?
  • badgersprite
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    Towns:

    Those towns were poorly implemented, not interesting, you didn't get to explore them, and you literally spent the whole time in Nautilus WANDERING AIMLESSLY and NOT DOING ANYTHING. Those aren't my words. That's what the game itself says about this section.

    Save Points:

    And those purposes are completely meaningless now that the game SAVES ITSELF FOR YOU. Seriously, if you lose a fight, not even a boss fight but any fight at all, you go straight back to the start of the fight WITH ALL YOUR CRYSTAL POINTS FROM THE WHOLE LEVEL INTACT. What is the point of saving? Why not just have an auto-save feature like every other AAA game these days? You could still have the little machines serve as shops or whatever, but there is no reason at all to have specific points at which to save now that they've removed the entire purpose for which they once existed. There is literally no point in saving the game at a particular point any more since the purpose in FFXIII CLEARLY wasn't that you had to save because you knew you would go back to that point as a consequence for losing a fight. That's not what it does anymore. There was no consequence for losing. The game might have well just recorded your progress automatically without any input from the player.

    Score:

    Yes, I read the manual. And, guess what? THAT SCORING SYSTEM STILL DIDN'T ADD ANYTHING TO THE GAME. What did it add? Seriously, tell me. What was great about it? How did it improve your experience? I know how the score is calculated, but it adds nothing to the game experience beyond an arbitrary set of grinding sidequests on Gran Pulse.


    The fact that you have rebuttals to complaints doesn't mean those rebuttals are any good. If I serve someone a plate full of dog turds then I could rebut a complaint that my food tastes like shit with the fact that it is made out of shit so of course it's going to taste like shit, but that doesn't de-legitimise the complaint and it doesn't do anything to strengthen the position of my cooking, does it?
  • Heart-Lightning
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    Well as I can see from you so called "rebuttals" I can only see very bad counter-counters.

    Exploration in towns these days have become so small it's not even funny. Ni No Kuni and FF10, while having shops, are basically so small that those towns don't have exploration to them. They are nothing but small areas of linear progression that you can come back to. They are not Academia where there are so many linear paths that go everywhere that there are 3 levels to the said town.

    So what if you can restart a battle? That makes it much more motivative to try and fix paradigms. Battle taking too long? Why not restart the battle, and fix your battle system to a better efficient way? Xenoblade and Ni No Kuni have an "auto attack" that allows you attack several times, and they are the 2 best JRPGs this generation!

    The score motivates you to make yourself go through the battles in a fast pace so that you can get 5 star. The ratings tell you that there is a specific timing in which you must beat to get a better rating. the more under the time you have, the better the addition to the score. It's like Golf, the less times you swing the club the better the score. The winner has the lowest score.

    Now this is how I can tell you are being a whiney fanboy. You are using the term "shit" in everything you are saying in this last paragraph. I now know I have made you angry and are doing this out of spite
  • badgersprite
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    I'm going to counter your counters because I don't see how your arguments dismiss the complaints.

    Paradigm: So, we shouldn't complain about not being able to control other characters because other games do it too? The fact that other games do something kind of similar means FFXIII can't possibly be wrong or implementing it badly, right? And, really, Mass Effect isn't remotely similar in gameplay and it DOES let you control what attacks other characters use.

    Auto Attack: That doesn't answer the complaint that it's still a brainless exercise. There is an objectively best path to victory. All I am doing is switching between different paradigms when needed and pressing Auto-Attack which selects the best option. Nothing you say here is countering the fact that a lot of people did not find this gameplay engaging or entertaining.

    Make it Easier: Marz avoided the battles because the battles are immensely boring and tedious to her. If the game is railroading her into leveling up her characters in an exercise that is NOT ENJOYABLE TO PLAY FOR HER, how is that an argument in the game's favour? Also, the game heals you after every battle. I can kind of see how that fits in with the idea of everything being fast-paced, but the whole style of gameplay just removes strategy completely. Instead, the game basically just wants me to overpower my opponents as quickly as possible. I don't have to think about conserving my strength or conserving money to purchase supplies in game except for weapon upgrades, so there's no choice there.

    Seriously, not a single argument you have raised does anything to diminish the fact that a lot of people did not find this game enjoyable to play. You're just making excuses for it.

    You are allowed to like the game. I have no problem with you liking the game. But there is nothing "more logical" about your opinion.
  • Souledge94  - On auto attack
    To be honest auto attack never chose the right moves for me. I always had a different plan. Again past FF games werent super deep ether. It was hit x or use magic and hit x. Since FF13 felt more fast paced and the inclusion of stagger added more urgency to me. I had alot of fun with it.

    Also having you auto heal after a battle doesint take out strategy because end of the day what do you do after a fight you use items to heal and move on. If anything it cuts out fat.
  • badgersprite
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    If you use Libra on your enemies or have unlocked complete information by staggering and defeating them enough times, the characters will automatically select the most efficient actions for a given situation based on the class you currently are. This is how the game works. If you have a "different idea" then the game considers your idea worse, so I'm sorry about that.

    But my point is that they removed the option entirely of making those healing items scarce and introducing an element of strategy that way. What they COULD have done is have your HP decrease after each battle and made healing items quite scarce so they have value to you since you can't use healing magic outside of battle (or if you could you could attach it to MP that doesn't replenish). What this does is it creates a conflict between two goals you have in game: the desire to battle monsters and level up your characters, and the desire to keep your characters alive so that you don't go back to the last save point and undo all the progress you've made.

    FFXIII didn't do this at all. They made you heal automatically after every battle and removed any consequence at all for losing.

    BOOM. There goes any element of thought or challenge. I can go headlong into any battle without thinking about anything knowing that if I die I'll go to right back before the battle with full health and full CP and I can run right back in without learning anything because there was no consequence for losing.

    I am not invested in the outcome of any battle. Why should I be invested in any battle when there is literally no consequence for losing? Why should I care when none of my goals as a player are ever in any kind of conflict? I do not have to think about what I'm doing. I do not have to approach fights with any kind of strategy or forethought.

    If you don't want to have to go through any of that and experience things like "challenge" or "thinking about the actions you're taking", then why are you playing video games? Just go watch a movie if you want a completely passive role in your entertainment. I'm not going to stop you.
  • Souledge94  - cutting fat
    The game might consider my idea bad but from my experiance it always came out better.

    The idea you have doesint really sound fun. Hp and mp potions never invoked challenge to me in previous jrpgs iv played and it still doesint till this day. Just means I gatta go buy some stuff and then come back and use it and rinse and repeat. Its something i suffer through not something I take joy in.In that time wasted I could of been enjoying my combat. The retry option was a great addition as well since if I did something wrong I can rethink and go right back in the fight insted of starting from the save point proboly have to fight the same minor foes AGAIN to get to the boss. Which has happend in other jrpgs iv played before and its not a fun experiance.
  • Xephon0930
    Well then maybe you should avoid playing traditional RPGs altogether if that is such a problem for you.
  • Souledge94  - why?
    No i can still play through it even though they have this flaw if im intersted in whats going on.
  • Heart-Lightning
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    But said games are quite popular. and it's an RPG. Nobody goes around saying "Mass Effect's battle system sucks because I can't control all three characters" Nobody said this with Dot Hack, or Kingdom Hearts, or Xenoblade, or The Last Story. So again, where is this argument going?

    Well both you and all of those others played it wrong and that's why it took so long. I wound up playing the system in a correct manner and breezed through it.

    And not a single counter counter argument of yours diminishes my argument. I can see that you can't see the forrest from the trees and leave you to that.

    Try to think next time before you start typing, okay? Thanks~
  • Fantomn33t
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    People are apt to complain about ff13 because 12 was sadly recieved an overall luke warm reception and Square Enix "follow up" was FF 14 easily one of SE biggest debacles in the last decade.

    14 by recognition of what SE has done was an unquestionable failure, however people would be more than apt to recognize the problems were aparent in there choices of productions that lead lead to why both 13 and 14 have glareing flaws from a company that, at least reputation wise within less than a decade prior, could do no wrong with there flagship titles.
  • Souledge94
    The thing is FF14 was factually a mess of a game. There is no arguing that it was a broken mess. 13 is much more opinionated then fact driven for those who like or dislike it. Thats the big difference.
  • Fantomn33t
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    But there is an issue in that this was from the company whose name sake brought out Final Fantasy 7 and milked that cow for what its worth well over a decade after its release.

    And that seems to be the problem, they keep trying to capture the magic in a bottle, but they fall short every time for there flagship franchise for well over a decade after the release of 7, mind you this doesn't stop them from trying to milk there OTHER moderate successes (Kingdom Hearts, Dissidia), but regardless it is an issue when, as to indirectly quote Marzgirl, the company is trying to make movie blockbusters in place of makeing an overall fun entertainment experience that apeals to the widest audience, if they were focussing on the latter then there shouldn't BE a hugely divided audience.
  • Souledge94
    I dont see how they milked KH. They kept releasing games that expanded the world. It wasint constant re-releases. Just cause they havent come out with 3 doesint mean its milked. Also Dissidia isint a form of milkage. Its a celebration of the series that turned out to be a great and fun game.

    I will agree they milk FF games since they keep re-releasing them I wont argue that since the fact is right in your face.

    Also why shouldint there be such a big divided audience? Isint that with most things. You ether you like it or you dont and move on. They havent stop making fun FF games that my opinion. Its more anyoing that those who hate the recent FF games try to make thier voice fact which it isint its just all opinion and nothing more.
  • Xephon0930
    Kingdom Hearts Recoded was basically a re-packaged 1st game. Square only releases ReChain of Memories for the KH2 International bundle. They are now working on an HD Kingdom Hearts 1 International and fuck if I know when is that Dream Drop Memories is taking place.

    The only expansive title I liked was Birth By Sleep as that has great characters to play as and those events actually resonate throughout the other games. I couldn't stand 382/2 Days or whatever for the mishandling of whatever character Roxas had in the 2nd game.
  • TheNPC
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    Paradigm: That may be true to an extent, but let's take Kingdom Hearts for example. Although you didn't directly control actions, you could customize the abilities used or at least available. Having characters automated is not new, but those that do automate allow somewhat indirect control over individual characters through customization. A better example of how it could have been handled was Dragon Age style, whiche had the characters somewhat automated, but you could customize their AI AND could take direct control of one at a time. There is very little customization of characters in 13, and what little customization does not affect their AI.

    And just because others games act that way does not mean it's beyond being criticized. Plus, this is Final Fantasy. The other games in the series allowed you to control all of the characters individually during battle. To put it into perspective, imagine if a Legend of Zelda game came out and you could only carry two weapons at a time, your sword and one other (be it a hookshot, or boomerang, or bomb). You may say "Well lots of games restrict you to two weapons, why should you criticize Legend of Zelda for acting differently?" And the answer is because the Legend of Zelda games have always had the feature of having a lot of different cool items to collect and carry around. It is a feature fans have come to expect. Plus unlike those other games, you only had the choice of ONE item instead of two since you had to carry your sword, so it is even more limiting since you don't have a feature the other game had, which was the possibility of different combinations. In both of these cases you had a feature that was previously found in nearly all of the previous games in a series, and replaced it with a lazier and less complex system that is used in other games, but also lacked another feature or ability that made the new system work well.

    Auto Attack: There is very little motivation to max out your star rating in any battle. If you want more CP, just fight a few extra battles. I think rare items drop more in 5 star ratings, but overall it's just not worth it, unless you are looking to get the ultra super weapons. And bear in mind, that's assuming that getting star ratings increases rare drop rates AND your assertion is correct that you cant get 5 stars without custom controlling, which is spurious since I recall getting 5 star ratings easy as long as I snuck up on creatures. Basically, the entire system is based around how fast you kill the guys.

    I won't say that the paradigm system wasn't dynamic and didn't require any strategy. It was completely unnecessary in short battles, but that is par for the course for level grinding. In longer battles there was a sense of strategy in the changing of the paradigms. Unfortunately, many of the boss battles were excessively long and repetitive. Since there is no MP and health is healed rather quickly and easily, there is ...
  • Gift of the Magi
    avatar
    So...what you're saying is these JRPGs and RPG videos are not actually RPGs, just bad games and I should avoid them all. Excellent, thank you.
  • GloatingSwine
    You can five star most battles with auto attack if you choose the right paradigms and are quick to switch between them as the battles develop. Picking abilities manually is generally just going to slow you down, especially since the AI will generally pick the best thing to do anyway.

    Player involvement is mostly about switching paradigms, which you will do quickly and often because player HP will fluctuate quickly, especially if you're on one of the all out attacking paradigms.

    It sounds from the review like Marz didn't play very aggressively, because whilst enemies can have lots of HP, you can make those HP go away very effectively if you use the tools at your disposal, especially making use of the saboteur's debuffs and the stagger system.

    As for MP, I don't miss it in the least. Magic hasn't been a balanced element of FF combat for ages, because in most FF games magic is no better than your fighters' physical attacks, which cost nothing to use, except for those very special one or two enemies, so most of the time your mages just didn't contribute or just did chip damage. Up until the point they levelled out all the attacks for characters so they were indistinguishable as "fighters" and "mages" at least.

    And whilst I'm sad that towns are gone, really, they've been gone from the genre as a whole for some time now. It's hardly unique to FFXIII to lack the old distinction between town and world. The only game I've played in ages that had towns worth the name was DQIX.
  • DoctorWorm
    Another good video on the subject. To be honest, I find Spoony's videos on the game to be more entertaining, but yours are more informative, and go into more detail about why the game is bad rather than ranting and riffing on silly things. You're both doing different things, and both doing them well.
  • Eyeshot
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    That was a good point about the difference between FF 12 and FF 13's battle system: The Gambit System. FF 12's Gambit system allowed you to choose specifically how each of your teammates acted, even the character currently under your control. If a teammate acted undesirably, it was your fault, so once you got all teammates to act the way you wanted, it did feel rewarding. Plus you can enter a command to any teammate at any time, and that command will take priority. FF 13 allowed for no such customization; it's like the game's saying, "It's either my way or the highway."

    Uh oh, I see Heart-Lightning glaring at me!
  • Zihon
    avatar
    FF12 was like build a machine, you make all go smooth so its was thanks to you that the battles where easy, not thanks to the game itself.
  • Loremich12
    This is basically why I gave up playing and decided to watch the story on Youtube. Great review MarzGurl, I really like your work. Keep doing what you do. I'll watch no matter what you talk about.
  • badgersprite
    avatar
    I'm glad you mentioned X-2, because, for all their problems, X-2 and X had excellent and innovative battle systems, or at the very least had the core elements necessary to be excellent battle systems, which is why it's so tragic that Squeenix has abandoned them and now chooses to completely change the system with every game instead of perfecting what has the potential to be brilliant.

    X and X-2 had very flexible battle systems that gave you as the player a lot of choice and control. In X you could switch out characters at will and used that to respond to different situations, and the expert sphere grid did enable you to build your characters completely differently each time you played through the game. X-2 was even better with the huge variety of jobs you had to choose from, and responding to different situations by changing your classes. The only criticism I really had about it was that there was no real difference between any of the characters; each of them were really equally good at any of the jobs so that kind of diminished the strategic element for how you could build the characters.

    Basically, if they had inserted FFX-2's combat and gameplay into FFXIII (meaning you control characters individually and switch between classes independently and at will) and maybe just introduced a few more classes to make things a bit more interesting, and if they still kept the gauge from FFXIII where you could cue up four or five attacks in a row to keep the battle fast-paced and exciting to watch, I think that I wouldn't have any problems with the battle system at all. That would actually have been quite enjoyable, or at least had a lot of potential.

    The battle system we got really was just an exercise in brainlessness, and I'm not shocked to hear the reasons for the removal of MP - after all it's not like we want there to be any kind of strategy involved in a Final Fantasy game.
  • Souledge94  - I enjoy the battle system
    Most older ff games yes even 4 one of the high held games is just pressing x or finding out what magic to use and pressing x. It really takes no involement. While 13 witht he inclusion of stagger and how fast paced the battles are I felt more involved in the fight then I did in ff4.

    Also the whole party complant isint a big issue. Example Persona 3 a great game in which you only have control of the leader and thats it and its not negative at all since the AI does a great job.

    I had zero complaints on the no mp bar front. All it does is make you waste time on buying mp potions and constally using going to a menu and useing it. Its not challenging just a waste of time.
  • Heart-Lightning
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    I would not say that about FF4 ystem, I would say other way around.

    However I do agree with everything else
  • Zihon  - really no mp!
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    OK WTF! NO MP!!! thats stupid, i started to play legend of dragoon a little ago and i have only 32 slots for items in that rpg, like 6 pots, 6 global pots, 8 status items, 4 revive, 4 mp items and the rest on attacks items or buff and in final fantasy, the biggest rpg series dont think that you can handle deal with mp, thats so stupid! why this game get a sequel and not other greats rpg. square enix you are so stupid sometimes.
  • Furrama
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    Been playing The Last Story. It's soooo much better than this game.

    I didn't love it until I realized that:

    1: If you don't like a character, you can color them like a clown.

    2: You can run Zael's head through signs.

    3: Banana canon. During serious moments.


    That's all you need to be my friend. FF13 doesn't do anything like that to endear me to it. ( Also the British voice actors are adorable.)

    FF hasn't been the same since they lost Sakaguchi. Good to see the old JRPG spirit still around.
  • Heart-Lightning
    avatar
    Both me and ProJared wound completely and utterly disagree. It was a massive disappointment that was worse than FF13. Hell, ProJared said it was even worse than FF13-2 and RE6.

    He is one of the only few people I actually care for such an opinion because he does his job so damn well
  • Xephon0930  - Never Heard of Him Till Now
    Plus even after looking at his quip on TLS on his top 10 list, it still doesn't all that justify his reasoning in how TLS was worse than FF XIII and RE6.
  • Xephon0930
    Plus do you two need to be reminded of how Sakaguchi had to start from scratch with Mist Walker and how as pointed by Jared that he was also stuck with the Wii's inferior hardware which limited the processing power of a game in terms of development and smooth running?

    Final Fantasy XIII was the 13th installment of the franchise and still is inferior as an overall product despite the 5-something years that has gonein development.

    That is like comparing a hybrid with a formula 1 racer and saying how inferior the former is.
  • Furrama
    avatar
    I did see that top ten video, but he didn't really say why it was that bad, or at least go into why he thought it was worse than 13-2. He might have perfectly good gripes, but I don't know what they are, so I can't argue them.

    I'm speaking from firsthand experience, I do hope you are as well and are not relying on someone from the internet to form your opinion for you.

    Even in the comments on that video quite a few people were scratching their heads as to why he put TLS on the list. But he didn't like it, so I guess it sucks now eh? (/sarcasm)
  • Gborr  - A little correction
    avatar
    I just wanted to correct something you have overlooked:
    In Final Fantasy 8, the tutorials are actually skippable. All you have to do is to hit "cancel" (triange or E by default) at any time when they are running, preferably right at the very beginning.

    Peace. :)
  • Tom Smith
    avatar
    I lost a bet and forced to play the game for slightly over an hour.
    I won't get into how the story isn't presented well at all but there is basically no gameplay of any kind. Every fight is literally just mashing the X button and maybe twice I had to take a healing item. It is insufferable. Then I noticed that I wasn't leveling up making the fighting, I don't know how, even more pointless. The most fun I had was juking, faking out and avoiding fights.
    I have never seen a more boring or worthless opening in any game.
  • Souledge94  - Just mashing the x button
    Im guessing you never played other FF games
  • MaF
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    Ah, Spoony does it better. You are payin' too much attention to the small details no one cares 'bout.
  • Kirke
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    As much as I enjoyed Spoony's take on it, he went on a 5 min long rant about the robes the people were wearing in this game. There is "little details" and there is "wtf"
  • TragicGuineaPig
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    The difference between Spoony's and Marzgurl's reviews: Spoony's was intended to be more entertaining, and Marzgurl's more serious.
  • Mz Doom
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    I'm glad Marzgirl plays similar to me, using psychical attacks on flans just because you can. (^^) It's the real freedom of being able to play the way you want even if it takes a while.

    FF13, I was never able to complete and I finished all the previous FF games, it just took away all the fun of trying out different things. Though I do thing the paradigim had a nice tactical element to it, once you figured out who was good at what.
  • confusiongrows
    Watching my friend play this game for 15 minutes was enough to put me off even touching it. I never liked the mechanics of even the earlier games, and for a modern incarnation of the series to be messing up the system rather than streamlining it is just unforgivable. In any case, some of the earlier ones (VII, VI and IV for me) get something of a pass in that at least I liked the story - it starts off well and remains interesting even if it drags a bit. This game looked like arse from the moment I laid eyes on it and most of the reviews and Let's Play content I've seen about it just affirmed my initial suspicion.

    I'd play a well-written Final Fantasy game that was controlled like a Zelda game, in fact I'd be all over that. At this point fans of the series still seem to be onboard but none of the games are the cultural phenomena the mid-series releases were and no one's being converted to JRPGs by these games any more. This franchise has reached it's Star Trek : Nemesis moment and it needs to be canned.
  • Zeke04
    Some of these arguments were just weak. The complaint that you can't beat bosses however you want really shouldn't be made when you're complaining about lack of challenge in the same video. Saying, "In old games I could play with a complete lack of skill and still win, that was fun!" sounds ridiculous when you're griping about how hands off and easy the fights are like that's a bad thing. Never mind that you're free to select your own attacks, or simply not use Libra if you don't want to be efficient, but part of the boss fights challenge is in being efficient. It's a different battle system, with different rules governing health and ability use, and as such battles have to be difficult in a different way, thus the timer based K.O.s

    I suppose you could call it a..."Paradigm Shift" in gameplay.

    Likewise your complaint for the class restrictions is exactly the same in X-2. You couldn't choose to go to any class at any time at all. You had to start on one class and then if you wanted to change you could only go to a class that was one node away. How is being restricted in that way good, but being restricted with Paradigm setups bad?

    Finally, saying you don't have to think about anything when playing is fine for a criticism, but only if it's true. A ton of the so called 15 minute normal enemy fights become far easier and quicker if you actually think and do choose abilities or optimal paradigm setups. Once again, you don't get to say "I played poorly and now that I'm being punished for it that reflects badly on the game.".

    The rest of the criticism are valid, but honestly they're so old hat I don't know why this review was made at all. I'm sure you're probably tired of hearing this, but Spoony is at least making his review of the game humorous. We all know the game sucks, so it's a chance to rip on it and have a good laugh. What's the point of this review, to convince the 1% of people still on the fence years after the game's release? It's informative, but only to someone that knows nothing about the game, and when all you're going to do is just do a dry normal review you should at least make it purposeful.
  • Sharkerbob
    avatar
    Not gunna lie. I bought this game last week, and I've been enjoying the hell out of it ever since. But, this is after watching a full Let's Play of it a year ago, and seeing Spoony and Marzgurl's series about it, and I knew going in what to expect. I already liked the characters a lot, thought the overarching story was kinda dumb, but didn't experience the battle system for myself. But now that I've played it?

    The bigger story makes a bit more sense on a second play through. Is it well executed? Not especially. But especially not worse than other JRPGs. And for me, the character stuff in the first half really is what sells it for me.

    I find I really like the Paradigm System and Crystarium. Yes, there are elements of it that are annoying; personally, I would have preferred X-2's battle/class system, I think, but the Paradigm System is something different that actually does keep me engaged in fights in ways I didn't expect. Or at least, the novelty of switching out Paradigms and various combos hasn't worn off for me yet.

    The Crystarium limiting your progression to certain points, I actually really appreciate. I fucking HATE grinding most of the time, though I don't mind a little of it, so it's a relief to me to know that, "Okay, I can get this far for now, and that's all I need" and then I can proceed. It's one of the reasons I liked Chrono Cross so much; freed from the NEED to grind allows me to go through the story at a reasonable pace.

    Is it dumb that it doesn't let you pick and choose the branch, YES, I agree with that, and would have preferred something like the Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands branching upgrades system, but hey, I'm willing to overlook it.

    I guess since I'm older, and I only have so much time/patience, even though I like games, I can appreciate this game's ability to streamline the experience, and, yes, allow me to watch videos and listen blogs during the hallway grind sequences.

    Truth is, part of me still thinks I really like JRPGs, but I am so turned off by modern JRPGs over and over, I honestly thought I hated/burned out on the genre now. But somehow, FFXIII has struck a cord with me, and I'm really enjoying it.
  • Sharkerbob
    avatar
    The Upgrade system is stupid. I know it's been done before in several installments, but I really wish you could just go back to "find a new weapon in a treasure chest and use that" or "save up cash to buy a new weapon from a rare store" rather than randomly capped out equipment.

    What's aggravating is just how much shit their is to slog through, as mentioned, I end up with so many accessories and components, I have no idea what to do with them. So I finally just gave up, and I'm pretty much sticking to what I have now for the rest of the game. It's kind of a relief to know it isn't necessary to upgrade to be able to beat it.

    I don't even pay attention to the Star Rating.

    The lack of shops and actual exploration is kind of annoying, but for the kind of game it is, well, it is kind of convenient to just have all the shops right there. I do like, aesthetically, how every "digital shop" has it's little theme, like your actually kind of going to a different website to order their stuff (background image, sound cues when selecting), it fits the future-y feel of the games setting.

    But, yes, in previous Final Fantasies, it was nice to go to a town and appreciate how each town was different and had its own themes in some cases.
  • Creature SH
    avatar
    I really enjoyed this review. It's highly informative and a good breakdown of all the things that make this game so broken and frustrating. I especially liked the latter bit where the issues with the game just kept on mounting and mounting with the jaunty music in the background.
  • Sapphirewave
    avatar
    I remember when I played final fantasy XII, I gave the little girl a gun as a joke, but by the end of the game she had become one of my best party members and had a cannon. Over all I will say that being able to strange stuff like that makes the game play of 12 better than 13, but for some reason I can’t explain, I still had my enjoyment from 13.
  • Amesang
    avatar
    Bitches love cannons!

    I feel like I'm the only person who didn't mind the shop set-up or the lack of town exploration. With regards to shops, what would you rather do? Buy off of Amazon or stand in line at Wal-mart? Well, assuming that buying at an RPG shop had any sense of realism to it — oh, you want to return that item? Go stand in that other line. Granted, I honestly was curious as to how the game upgraded your equipment via those floating kiosks, unless they have built-in minor teleporter.

    With regards to exploring towns, why would your characters want to? They've been cursed by an alien god with the need to complete some vague "focus." If they don't complete it in time they become a zombie of sorts, and on top of that they've been given fairly visible brands AND they're now wanted by the world government because of their branding making them criminals (not that they were given any choice). So once Farmer Bob sees Lightning & Co. and notices a brand he's calling the cops on your ass. Of course (•SPOILERS•) that makes the effort of going to Hope's house pretty a brain-dead plan on their part.

    Granted, one thing they could have done was implement a sneaking-around feature where you actively try to avoid the cops, military, and Average Joe while hooking up with Hope's dad, Snow's friends, or another rare soul sympathetic to your plight and… %*#$ it, I'm just going to go re-play "Ultima V: Warrior's of Destiny."
  • Xephon0930  - Auto-Battle Done Right
    There are games where the auto-battle option have worked. For one, it remains that. An option. Not something that is going to be the norm for virtually all your battles.

    A great example would be the Shin Megami Tensei games(especially the ones with Press Turn Combat) where the enemies have more turns than you or have moves that make each of their turns a potential game over so in most battles, you have to think harder on what actions to do in your turns so you won't die before you take the next turn.

    What does this have to do with auto-battle? Well considering how tough even normal battles can be, choosing auto-attack all the time will most likely equate to a suicide button. But it is useful for taking out scrubs and blazing past noobs. There is also an option to have it set to repeat the turn patterns used in the last round so you aren't stuck with the auto-attack using the generic attack command all the time.

    That is the trend I noticed in XIII and it is the lack of options it forced upon players to choke down their crappy overdramatic narrative that wasn't even that well told or compelling anyways.
  • Souledge94  - It is an option
    Noone is saying use auto battle. If you use it its YOUR choice. Thus being an option.
  • Xephon0930
    Yeah,and I guess the Gambits are terrible since they do something similar.

    But seriously,the auto battling in XIII is just encouraging laziness on the player's behalf because they automatically choose the best path to victory. Does it always work?

    No,but when it does,it had little player input involved whereas Gambits can still fail because the player forgot to readjust beforehand while going to a new area.

    FF XIII was designed to beg the player to go on auto-pilot and that's what is the gripe of many gamers.
  • Malidictus
    Actually, I feel "MP" and similar stamina/mana/energy systems are among the worst things to happen to RPGs, right along with "maintenance." This turns the game into a chore and busywork. If you have to limit something, limit it by cooldown or specific situation. At least that way, I don't lose the ability to use one skill because I used another.

    MMOs are the worst in this regard, with forced "downtime" meaning you either have to spend money on potions or quit playing the game if you get hurt too hard. There's noting wrong with an "easy" game if the ease comes from skipping busywork.
  • Xephon0930
    I am pretty sure that you like having your hand held in every game you play and thus expect the game to hand you everything on a silver platter. No, what is the definition of a chore and busywork would be having little input for the player to separate you from a game over screen.

    What you have with XIII is that since there is no MP or cooldown, you use up multiples of the same spell anyways and all the bigger and more fancier tools never get used anyways.

    Also, try playing through the original magic count system where each and every spell has a limited use in relation to the individual spell and how your only way to bring it back up is the ultra rare elixer that can never be bought as shops don't sell them. That and it really limits the amount of spells you use in terms of absolutes.

    With the all-encompassing MP system, there is much streamlining as well as much better ease of access in terms of using spells and knowing when to use them.

    That and the other and last time the magic count system was used was in FF VIII and how the Junction System made it so those spells can't be used anyways.
  • Souledge94
    How does no mp=hand holding? That makes no sense. Ff13 does it fine since you still gatta manage stagger and pick the right moves. You still gatta wait for the bar to fill and the magic does take up a certain amount of bar so you can only do it a certain amount of times in a turn.

    Only difference now im not bothered to use mp poition to keep refilling my bar in or after battle. Other games have shown you dont need mp such as xenoblade. Even though I found most characters stale as 3week old toast the combat system was well done and guess what no mp. It was basicly you use a skill and wait till it fills again while the people auto attacked.Also if I recall you can save anywhere in the game and the game has retry option in which thankfully 13 had also.
  • Xephon0930
    Xenoblade is one of those few games in the genre that are actually still good in this era. But not all games play like Xenoblade.

    I'm more responding to how the guy mentions MP management being busy work and how terrible of an example it is in context of FF XIII.

    The Shin Megami Tensei games still use MP and management is a key gameplay element since it is also a dungeon crawler.

    Not all games have to have no MP but if they do,execution is the key in which XIII failed miserably.
  • Xephon0930
    But then there is also another problem with XIII. All battles have the same strategy of staggering to win. Granted most other RPGs may have a similar formula but the only bit of difference in power is how fast you are at whittling down the opponent's HP.

    The weapon upgrade system is very cryptic and random that it is hard to get results without a game guide. Plus all the weapons you get from chests are useless anyways if you have been focusing on 1 of 8 weapons anyways.

    Then there is the problem of having only 3 stats which are HP,Strength and Magic. That means with the already ridiculously linear Crystarium,there is not much of a notable difference in each character most of the time since abilities and the like happen to level up once every 5 or so stat level ups.

    There is also a serious lack of wiggle room or deviation for what kind of path to choose outside of which of the linear 6 paths I can blaze my CP through.

    At least with the License Board and Sphere Grids,there was quite a bit of choice in what to spend up until you could max out everything.

    Having 3 stats wouldn't be so bad if the game was some sort of action adventure hybrid like Monster Hunter where you need to use your reflexes and quick thinking and judgement to win out battles,here it is mindless repetition of pressing Libra,auto-battle and then Paradigm Shift.
  • Souledge94
    You do know most FF games were press x to attack and thats it right. FF13 made it more involved by making it much more fast paced and adding stagger. Its one of my favorite battle systems in a jrpg.
    Also again from my experiance auto battle never picked the route I wanted to go in my battle plan and my route always worked out. Auto battle is there but again its a option you dont have to use it I never really used it while playing 13.

    I dont see how FF13 failed at the no mp thing. It pulled it off just fine in my book. I never enjoyed MP management its just something I sat through to enjoy the rest of a game.
  • Xephon0930
    If you think ALL battles in Final Fantasy have you use attack 100% of the time, I am going to call you out as being facetious.

    Final Fantasy at its finest gameplay have other commands usually reserved and/or exclusive to a character or class that not only helps mix things up but also are much more practical depending on situation. Take Cecil in IV as an example, he starts out with attack and Darkness Wave in which the latter is great for killing mobs but not so much on single opponents. But the cost to balance things out is the HP cost. MP and magic work on the same principle.

    Outside of the Staggering element in XIII, there is little to no differentiation in physical and magic moves outside of what they do for staggering and what stats they use in the damage formula.

    Plus with the way the ATB is set up, it would seem that 7 Fire spells is much more practical than casting 2 Firagas. Thus the higher level spells are functionally useless. And the All AP attacks are basically Limit Breaks you can use whenever which makes it a spammable power move as Vanille would prove in grinding those giants in Pulse.

    There are much better ways to manage the balance of skills via cooldown such as Tales of Rebirth's Force Gauge and the cooldowns in Xenoblade. Hell, Radiata Story's Volty system is one of the more interesting mixes of both the MP and gradual cooldown elements.

    I have said all I have as well as others. FF XIII is what basically killed or crippled interest in "JRPGs" in the West and it would've died out if it weren't for Tales and Persona.
  • Souledge94
    You really think 13 was so bad that it actually killed jrpgs or crippled it this is a prime example of overreacting. Also after putting time into FF4 its just x attack or use x to pick magic and attack. Its not some super complex combat mechanic and 13 felt more involved then it.
  • Fantomn33t
    avatar
    The issue of 8 and changeing from charges in place of MP is that circumstancialy it was a "step backwards" design choice.
    The point of MP was to replace the grandfathered in system of "you may only cast spells x number of times per day" from the pen and paper days of RPGs.

    While in contemporal games it is more than apt to replace the then "bandage for the situation" of the well over decades old MP system concept, there still should be some sort of meta resource management going on with commands as it is more than a staple in anything calling itself an RPG.
  • Xephon0930
    And really that is the dead center in the grand scheme of things. Most RPGs derive their gameplay from DnD table tops and what worked there has endured because well,it worked.

    XIII makes all these "fixes" and justify them without even looking into the reason why these elements worked in the beginning.
  • Sharkerbob
    avatar
    MP is a perfectly fine system for what it is, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then.

    I love the fact that I don't have to worry about MP. In this game, at least basic magic isn't so much more damaging that physical techniques, so much as it's all part of the Elemental Weakness/Strength system. Bigger spells obviously do a ton of damage, but that's the thing that always sucked about MP; you have all these awesome super powers, and whoops, no, don't you dare think about using it until the boss! It wasn't quite as bad in the games where you could buy Ethers or something similar to restore, but then, some games have ethers as rare items, so it's not like you can buy them.

    Again, I reference Chrono Cross, I loved CC's magic/stamina system. Yeah, it wasn't perfect, but it was it's own type of strategy, and I really appreciated the trade off they used in that system between building up magic power and strategically using the limited spell slots you had.
  • Xephon0930
    I'm more concerned at the lack of effort that was put in XIII and the constant justifications of the developers and the blind fanbase of those specific games.
  • Sharkerbob
    avatar
    The developer's responses do have a scent of arrogant dismissal to them, I'll give you that.

    At the end of the day, FFXIII was a more "experimental" Final Fantasy, the same way FFII, FFVIII, and FFXII were, and that's unfortunately the thing about experiments, sometimes they don't always work out. I like FFXIII, but I can see plenty of reasons for people to hate on it.

    It is perplexing that they're continuing to plug XIII despite knowing the backlash, when it might be better to just move onto XV already.
  • Xephon0930
    Well this winded up blowing in their face. And yet they still try to convince us that Lightning and her story are worth 3 games now.
  • Sharkerbob
    avatar
    Shoulda been Fang Returns, you ask me. :P
  • venkarl
    avatar
    You can skip the tutorials in FFVIII by hitting the cancel button when the tutorial starts. Granted, the game doesn't TELL you that, but still.
  • Excalibur
    avatar
    I'm suddenly reminded of Metal Gear Solid 4 at PS3's launch. It had the problem of being mostly made of cutscenes and the actual gameplay seemed like you are going from point A to point B to trigger the next beautiful cutscene. At least in MGS4, the gameplay is actually fun
  • Kirke
    avatar
    I loved your take on this game - very informative, well done, shows EXACTLY what is wrong with FFXIII. I wouldn't say I hated it but it's the least enjoyable of all FF games I've played. I've finished FFX-2 the other week and while the game had its problems, if you got into it enough, you tended to forget. FFXIII kept reminding me I'm still doing a tutorial every 10 min, I was relieved when I finished.
  • pkingdom
    Hooray for this video! I've been looking forward to it for a while. Can't wait for the next one!
  • UsagiShira
    I'm playing this game again so I can get ready for when Lightning Returns comes out. I actually like this game. I can see why people don't like and I'm fine with that. But I like it.
    There is strategy in the game. Yes I always just go with "auto-attack" but I also have to think about how best to defeat the enemy. I may have to start the fight buffing my party just until everyone has protect on then I can switch to another paradigm and just have everyone attack. I like the Paradigm Shift but I do think it could have been made better.
    And I have never had a problem with normal random battles taking a while to beat. FFX has the Dark Flan that takes forever for me to beat and while it does get tedious and frustrating, I'm ok with it b/c I can still think of how to beat it quicker while I'm fighting it. You really shouldn't have avoided all the random battles. And as far as shrouds go I only use mine for boss battles. Especially against Barthandelus!
  • Cat-Alin  - Noobs complaining about the Battle System, what a
    avatar
    Oh look another NOOB of this game who thinks the battle system consists of nothing but Auto Battle. Learn the fucking battle system, MarzGurl! Auto Battle is necessary for people who are new to this battle system, Yes, but using Auto Battle throughout the game is shit. You know why? Because the AI of your leader prioritizes things that are pointless at times.

    Getting monsters with high Stagger Point staggered is tough and takes too long? Well that's where some strategy with the roles comes in. That's why you DO have to THINK when fighting battles.

    And if battles take too long for you, you need to figure out the strategy of the game, again. Even the overpowered Long Guis and Adamantoise monsters can be felled in less than 3 minutes (5 for the Long Guis) if you have the right equpiment and battle setup.

    Jeez, people, you really need to learn how to play this game! I'm not saying that the game is perfect, it has flaws, so does every game. Yes, XIII is extremely linear - so was X! I can understand some of the complaints people have about this game (I have my own, mostly centering around the existence of Mr Snow I'M A FUCKING HERO Villiers) but complaining about the boringness of the battle system just proves that you don't know how to play XIII - and for that matter, XIII-2 as well.

    C-A
  • Xephon0930
    Oh lookey here,another know-it-all who thinks they are better gamers because they like a battle system where character input is seldom shown. Imagine that.

    The biggest issue people had with the battle system is not because they "didn't get it" but just how little player input there was in the game. Plus,have you seen the maps of X and XIII back to back?

    X was linear but at least there were some deviations due to design that at least shown some effort on the programmer's side of things. XIII is literally a straight fucking line.

    A system where the Stagger System was done right was Xenosaga 3. They actually went back and fixed what was wrong in 2's execution and made it so that you also had your party's Break Gauge to worry about or else,they go out of commission for a while.

    Here,you use physical attacks to bring up the gauge and magic to slow it down. Not much deviation from that.
  • TheNPC
    avatar
    I never had a problem with beating, well, anything using Auto-Battle when playing the game. Frankly, trying to pick the best abilities was more effort with almost no benefit.

    Auto-Battle takes care of trying different element types and debuffs on the enemy, thus experimenting until it finds out what works. After filling in all of those blanks, the AI will automatically choose the best attack types to do the most damage and only use the debuffs that work. Even this experimenting can be skipped with a cast of Libra.

    Even if the Auto-Battle did have bad strategy, you still only take direct control over one of the 3 party members, so your control is still stymied. The only thing I manually did was Eidolon summons and item use, which was mainly only phoenix downs.

    As for equipment, again like the auto-battle there isn't much of a point to it. You are better off just pumping your first and main weapon up to full rather than trying to go for any custom weapons which might be situational or have cool effects. Especially since many of those weapons will be found well over halfway into the game. Armor bangles might have more customization, but often enough just taking the extra strength/magic or more hit points is the better option.

    I will admit there is some semblance of strategy in choosing paradigm options since you can only have a few of the possible combos, but after a while I found myself using the same strategy against every boss:

    Start: Buff/Debuff (Sen/Syn/Sab) until decently buffed,
    Damage (Com/Rav/Rav) for the rest.
    Switch to Heal(Sen/Med/Med) when low on HP, or Buff/Debuff when buffs disappear.

    The thing was, that was how it worked the whole game, and nothing changed. Hell, my party rarely changed. I always used Snow as leader (and Sentinel) because he had the most HP, I would use Vanille as my Saboteur and Medic, and I would use Sazh as my synergist until Hope learned Haste then I used Hope the rest of the game as a synergist/medic.

    I didn't feel like anything changed. The numbers got higher, but the game felt the same. I used no new eidolons because there was no point in switching leaders. Any new magic spells or abilities I learned would be cast automatically so I wouldn't notice them, especially in the clusterfuck of battle. I wouldn't switch weapons because new weapons were without XP and I couldn't transfer the XP in any way, and did not want to sink the time necessary to level it up ESPECIALLY when I didn't know if it would be better when full. I switched bangles as time went on, but usually only for ones that just had more of the stat it already increased.

    The battles didn't CHANGE as time went on. It was a 30 hour tutorial gradually unfolding the same battle.

    I won't lie, most Final Fantasies have similar problems, but they had the benefit of making the attainment of different abilities and their customiz...
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