Manga Gone Legit
Written by MarzGurl Wednesday, 16 June 2010 21:26
Title cards provided by Shawn Brown. Check out more of his work at shadowcross.deviantart.com
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06.16.2010 - 21:42 | Animeking1108I don't know who's side to take. I know it's illegal, but opposing would make me a hypocrite.
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06.16.2010 - 21:43 | tiff-tiff86I'll admit I look at these sites and read whats on there, but I never download them! Instead, if I really like what I read online, I'll gladly fork over the 7$/9$/10$ and buy it myself just to read it again! Heck, if I really see myself getting into it I'll stop reading it online, avoid any spoilers that I might come across, and wait for the U.S. publisher to release the next volume!
Oh well, such is life. Nothing in this world is free. I'm just going to have to go back to finding out about a new series the old-fasioned way: by either word of mouth or watching the anime first through legal means. :)
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06.16.2010 - 22:35 | TragicGuineaPig
"Stick it to the man!" What man? You mean the companies that pay artists and writers to produce a product for them to sell? Those same companies that, if they don't make income will have to let those writers and artists starve? I'm sorry, but stealing is still stealing, even if it is done electronically. People who need their manga fix that badly need to pay for it; if they did, there might actually be more and better manga for them to read.
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06.16.2010 - 22:31 | LikaLaruku
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06.16.2010 - 22:41 | TragicGuineaPig
That may be true. But the publishers are still doing the readers a service by providing them with material. If those publishers weren't making money, there wouldn't be anything to read. So either way, the manga pirates ultimately end up hurting themselves.
But there are other expenses in running a publishing company that paying talent. There's printing, marketing, administration, etc. Not only that, but the more talented artists and writers usually get a bigger slice of the pie (and some of them might even start their own publishing companies, just like Prince when he created his own record label).
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06.16.2010 - 22:43 | TragicGuineaPig
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06.16.2010 - 21:46 | FullmetalNinja25
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06.16.2010 - 22:33 | LikaLaruku
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06.19.2010 - 09:59 | PIE!!!
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06.16.2010 - 21:48 | Just a GigoloI'll say it once, and I'll say it again. Pirating ANYTHING has no logical arguments on it's side. All they can come up with is childish excuses as to why they want to hurt an industry.
It just makes me angry when I see those people complain about the fact they can't break international laws anymore.
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06.16.2010 - 23:44 | The Inkling
That's not.. COMPLETELY true. I admit to having to pirate a certain art program because I bought it for $400, it didn't work, and the company refused to replace it simply saying that I was the one who damaged it on purpose to get another free copy.
Unfairness like that sort of forced my hand, I was on a deadline and I did what I had to do to meet it. In the end, I'm more happy with the torrent than I could have ever been with the $400 product.
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06.17.2010 - 07:41 | matt.recneps
With respect, I don't see that as a good reason to pirate something. Say that program were something like an Xbox or an iPhone. If it broke and the company refused to fix or replace it, do you think you would be entitled to go steal one from the nearest store?
You paid your $400 and received what you paid for the first time. Was it wrong of them not to replace a non-working product? I don't know, I can't say for certain how it was damaged; but I think some kind of warranty should have been included. If there was a warranty and they didn't honor it, that's wrong. However, what you did was just as wrong. You're not entitled to two copies just because one didn't work. You think you're the first person to buy a piece of crap that didn't work? They didn't force you to download the program, you did that all on your own.
I think the digital age has kind of softened us all to the idea of theft. "It's not like I'm stealing something [i]physical,[/i] I'm just stealing a copy of the data."
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06.18.2010 - 13:09 | Nifar
Bzt. Wrong. Piracy in moderation can actually boost sales. I myself am both a writer and an artist, as well as a supporter of the political Pirate Party, and I purposely leak samples or occasionally entire works to torrenters because I know that I get more sales that way than I would by just publishing my work and expecting people to pick it up.
To butcher the original meaning of an old phrase, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Free advertisement is [i]always[/i] a good thing. I'm not loosing any money off of the people who decide to not purchase my work, because they most likely wouldn't have bought it anyway.
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06.16.2010 - 21:51 | michaelarroyo01
Well, it was bound to happen eventually, especially with that big meeting between Japan and US manga publishers that took place a few days ago. MangaOne has also been cleaning out their system.
I really don't have much to say about this topic that hasn't already been said. Just like any other piece of copyrighted material, manga belongs to the owner, and the owner has the right to secure their property.
As for these manga scanlation sites, if they want to stay afloat, they will have to change and evolve with the times, much like how Crunchyroll legitimized themselves when it came to anime.
The fans will just have to learn to get over it. What bothers me the most is that so many of these titles are available in the US and will reach our shores legitimately eventually. We are such an impatient generation. We need to learn how to wait for the things we want.
My girlfriend was recently on a podcast that talked about manga, although I'm not sure this particular topic came up. You can watch it here: [url]http:// thegeekfighters.com/ podcasts/the-rising-sun/ 515-the-rising-sun- episode-19-manga[/url]
While you're at that site, you can check out other great shows, like [url=http:// thegeekfighters.com/the- anime-mavericks/the- shades/anime-takeover] Anime Takeover[/url], [url=http:// thegeekfighters.com/the- anime-mavericks/ez-rider/ toku-time]Toku Time[/url], and [url=http:// thegeekfighters.com/the- anime-mavericks/anime- for-dummies]Anime For Dummies.[/url]
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06.16.2010 - 21:52 | Ota-Kun
Well said, and while I might be a hypocrite for saying this but what do you expect out of a fan community that's used to getting what they want? Even before I wasn't a big anime fan the free market fan subs and traslations made up a good chuck of a North American Otaku's daily anime fix, this is due to several reasons but the majority was still laziness. I'm personally glad that they are cleaning up the anime and manga market but backlash is to be expected.
Still you're not out of your realm of saying what you said, it's true fans are fickle creatures.
PS, who's that in your card besides you? Generic Fanboy?
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06.16.2010 - 21:51 | Rapter
Most of the manga I read online, I read for two reasons. 1) That specific chapter hasn't been legally translated and I am impatience. 2) That manga is not out in the US.
Anyway, I wonder if Japanese is a hard language to learn to read. If its not too tough, I'm probably going to learn Japanese and start importing untranslated manga from Japan.
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06.16.2010 - 23:45 | The Inkling
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06.17.2010 - 02:37 | Vismutti
It's not all that hard! It depends on what kind of manga you read though. Manga for teenagers (and children of course) is generally very easy to read and has furigana to help read the kanji so you don't even have to learn but the most basic kanji characters, otherwise you'll be good with just hiragana and katakana.
Manga for adults is way more difficult... in fact I'd go so far as to say that it's [i]hell[/i] at least if you haven't practiced with easier manga first. The Japanese writing system is one of the hardest to learn in the world, in fact as a person who has learned both Chinese and Japanese, I can tell you that learning Chinese characters is easier than learning the Japanese kanji characters because the Japanese kanji change their pronunciation depending on the context.
But even in the case of adult manga, they are still comics and comics are always easier to read than text-only stuff. And of course it depends on the subject of the series too. A daily life manga is waaay easier to read than some epically philosophical sci-fi series. Also, familiar series are easier to read than a completely new series and the more you know about the series, the easier it becomes to read it even in Japanese. Watching anime in Japanese with subtitles helps a lot too.
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06.16.2010 - 22:02 | Lotus Prince
I love how so many idiots think that "no longer stealing" is the same as "selling out."
I'm pretty sure that almost no one knows what "selling out, means anymore, and people just say it because it sounds negative.
Also, I love reading scanlations myself, but I'm not going to BAWWWWWWWWWW when a site decides to go legit.
Besides, I mainly read Jojo's Bizarre Adventure online. Yeah, part 3 was (partially) released in the US (as part 1, because people are idiots, and haven't learned from the Final Fantasy and Tales series mistakes yet), but parts 1, 2, and 4-6 are probably never going to be released here, so it's either read a scanlation, or buy a Japanese copy and...not be able to read it.
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06.16.2010 - 22:02 | BasilWell my problem is that the manga I read online is not available here. I did try to learn Japanese just so I could get it straight from the source but that went over about as well as my attempts to learn Spanish or French. I have a huge collection of purchased manga and anime but I am limited not only by money(which still won't drive me to reading online as I prefer holding it in hand) but by lack of availability. If this could be overcome, I'd have no problem with it.
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06.16.2010 - 22:25 | LikaLaruku
Why does your Avatar have brown & blue hair instead of black & blue?
I forgive you! I'm more interested in manga anyway.
AnimeA did the same thing as MangaHelpers. OneManga is only purging mangas licenced by American companies, & MangaFox is only purging hentai (ironically, not purging yuri or yaoi). I buy legal copies of the stuff I read there, even raws. They're cheap at the local Uwajimaya.
Looking forward to OpenManga. As for the 13 year old trolls who want to host mangas actually available for purchace in English; best get a host in China or Russia or you'll get sued too.
Speaking of China; a land where piracy is the rule & not the exception, they are the biggest illegal scan makers in the world. Most American scanlators get their raws from Chinese websites because it's faster & requires less cleanup than scaning their own.
Unfortunately for Japanese & American manga publishers, whiping out scanlation databases won't hinder readers. Baka Manga Updates shows a metric ton of scanlation teams that have their own site. If people can get their manga torrent-style, they'll just go straight to the sources...Or begrudgingly venture to unreadable Chinese scanlation sites. It's as futile as fighting video game piracy in China & Russia.
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06.17.2010 - 07:49 | MarzGurl
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06.17.2010 - 21:00 | LikaLaruku
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06.16.2010 - 22:03 | LimecatWell, if the manga hasn't been published in the United States, the publishers in Japan can't really do much about if people are reading scanlations online.
People have been doing this for a lot longer than you think. Fansub bootleg VHS tapes of anime and Hong Kong action movies have been circulating the globe for the past couple decades.
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06.16.2010 - 22:18 | LikaLaruku
That's how I got most of my anime in the late 90s, back when Viz was pretty bad & Manga Corps was the worst we had. I'll never forget how messed up the Hong Kong fansubs were for Yu Yu Hakusho.
Before scanlations, we'd have to print out sheets of translations that told us what pannel & box each like of dialogue belonged to.
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06.16.2010 - 22:07 | Tactlesscat
Thirty...THIRTY...I don't even know 30 different manga distributing sites, holy crap.
What I do know though is Mangafox will probably be the first one smashed in the nads considering several of their "Scanlations" is someone just cracked open their "legally bought" american/japanese copy and smashed it onto their scanner and submitted the zip with the hard to read text baloons editted to have the text fit in them but originally can't cause lol book folds.
Because why wait for a translator that dropped the ball and didn't finish work before the American distribution amirite? God forbid you like...spend the 7-10 dollars for a manga copy yourself.
You know I bet half of this legal action wouldn't be happening if that whole Nick Simmons thing and TWITTER never existed, so people only have themselves to blame.
BTW I'm blaming Twitter because where do you think dipwads go to talk about super early releases of manga scanlations...even though the same site is where multilingual mangaka also post random stuff. GJ guys.
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06.16.2010 - 22:14 | LikaLaruku
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06.16.2010 - 22:06 | parfai
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06.16.2010 - 22:36 | LikaLaruku
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06.16.2010 - 22:55 | regulus4Your logic doesn't fly if a poor man steals bread. It certainly won't fly when it regards a form of entertainment.
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06.16.2010 - 23:11 | RocketGruntKennyShe may have been uncharacteristically bitchy for a moment, but I (begrudgingly) have to agree: that doesn't justify stealing.
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06.16.2010 - 23:53 | KariI kind of enjoyed the mini-rant, there. Frankly, rant-free videos have earned nerd rage on previous occasions, so there's not really a percentage in trying to not offend a certain segment of the population, at this point. I appreciate people who are polite on the internet, but I can see how it would be hard when the people you're responding to are so freaking clueless, you know?
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06.16.2010 - 23:27 | BS Digital QI'd have to agree. Even with a job that pays semi-decently, I simply cannot afford to buy manga on a regular basis. Add to that the fact that often the entire manga isn't available, and that I would rather not shell out cash on a series I know little to nothing about, and that often some mangas I'm interested in are not available, and you've got yourself a little problem.
Also, mangas are easier to read onscreen. Don't have to squint to see little details (always bugged me how small manga volumes are).
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06.17.2010 - 07:58 | matt.recneps
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06.17.2010 - 13:29 | ChaosD1
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06.19.2010 - 10:18 | PIE!!!
@parfai
FUCK YOU YOU SHALLOW PRETENTIOUS IGNORANT JERKASS!!!
Ugh, sorry I had to get that out of my system. Seriously, "judgey wudgey was an annoying fucking bear"? That is lame. That upside down smiley face just makes you look like even more of a creep. Just because you don't have enough money that doesn't make stealing any better. Do you know how HARD mangaka work their asses just to get ONE chapter completed? Trust me, I'm an aspiring comic book creator myself and it is time consuming as HELL. The mangaka deserve all the credit and all the payment they deserve.
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06.16.2010 - 22:24 | Desertpunk23Sorry for being random, but does anyone else think Mars Girl is hot :P
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06.16.2010 - 23:03 | regulus4I tend to shy away from that word hot, but I do fin her to be very pretty.
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06.16.2010 - 22:26 | regulus4Another great video about anime/manga copyright infringement. I actually plan to start buying the American volumes of the Full Metal Alchemist manga because of what you had to say, after reading the entire series from a scanlation site. I guess it might be too little too late, but it's the best way I could think of to make things right.
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06.16.2010 - 22:28 | carlosshit never gonna end
mangahelpers sucks
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while I DO own every volume of the manga and all the ones released in the US I want to know if downloading the Japanese episodes that where not released on DVD(and probably wont Viz canned it)would get my ass handed to me?(I would be more then willing to buy more anime episodes if it ever hit shores)
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06.16.2010 - 22:39 | kyuuketsukiHere is what I think should happen.
-Disclaimer-
Now I'm not going to be a hypocrite, but I also won't lie. I once downloaded and often read things on-line illegally... A few years ago, I stopped doing such things in high volume. Note: I still do, but on a much smaller scale and try to buy as much as possible.
-End of Disclaimer-
Now, what I think would be preferable for these companies to do would be to ALLY themselves with the scanlating and translating communities. There is no denying that some of these groups do a fantastic job at what they do. Not only do they do the job well, but many do it exceedingly fast. Did I mention most do it for free? What should happen is this... Allow the scanlators to do their thing and create a section of their own website that is premium for the cost of what their magazine would be monthly, weekly, or whatever increments they use. They could do this as a joint with Viz or other American companies as well. Therefore they would remove the need to have illegal sites all together and turn out a profit bigger than they are now. They need to think of solutions, not attack the fans. Hell, if ALL the companies conglomerate, and make a fee per chapter and make one site based on a small fee to read one chapter instead of forcing people to wait, I'm sure they can cover the cost of webhosting and turn out a profit. Most manga companies release books that sell for $5 per week that have a dozen or more different manga titles. If they charge $.50 to read a scanlated version per week or month they would turn a profit easily. Most parents would not object to spending $5 on 10 comics per week that their kid could own in digital and stay legal.
Let me know what you guys think... I really think this is a better solution than suing everyone. And in doing this it makes scanlation and fansubbing groups a mute point. Best part is, that if they contact every group there will be "official" translations for many more languages as the official company would be involved. And the fans that do this would be able to continue to do it. Hell, if they jack up the price a bit they can even PAY the scanlators and whatnot for the efforts. Making each comic $1 would allow some profits to go to the kids that are helping them. Thus there would be less of a loss of groups.
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06.19.2010 - 10:22 | PIE!!!
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06.16.2010 - 22:47 | Tellmemyname
Because of this kind of problems i made a personal rule months ago to only read series that haven't been published yet and buy the mangas once they become available. Its anoying to have to wait so long for the next volume, but atleast i get the satisfaction of helping my favorite mangakas to pay the rent.
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06.17.2010 - 21:03 | kyuuketsukiMy solution is similar to yours (read one above you) but more in keeping of the current dichotomy of the manga world (btw, manga is not to be pluralized, it is a Japanese word and therefore has no plural form). The problem with manga is that there are at least a dozen publications in Japan with varying fanbases... Here in America we only have a few, but much of the manga read on-line often doesn't have an American license. Therefore having one site would not suffice. Also, you have to remember, Marvel is one company, and their writers are under their company. Manga is no like that. Viz and other companies pay the Japanese creators for their work. That is why manga is so expensive. We have to support TWO companies, not one. So it would have to be done differently. Though it DOES need to be done. Digital is just cheaper and easier to access than print is.
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06.16.2010 - 22:56 | relaxin
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06.16.2010 - 22:56 | DenaB
I can say that it is a bad thing to steal, and I know this, however, as a person who actually reads scanslated works I am a bit depressed.
The fact of the matter is not every single person in the US can actually fork over $10-$15 for ONE volume of manga. It's just not possible for them. Reading it online is just far easier. I mean I WISH I could go out and waste $200-$300 for manga, but being in the recession and having NO form of employment that's just not going to happen.
Like I said before, stealing is wrong and I can understand why they are buckling down. However, you have to sometimes realize that some people either a)do not have access to any form of manga/anime retailer or access to online websites to purchase manga or anime simply because of their age or b)they are not rich and cannot just blow $10-$15 for one volume of manga that may end up just sitting on their shelf gathering dust. Because honestly I read manga ONCE and that's it. I thought being able to just access a site that has manga on it was nice. If they decide to get rid of sites then I suppose I am just going to have to stop being a fan of manga/anime. I cannot have my cake and eat it too.
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06.16.2010 - 23:16 | RaditzdmThere are a lot of people in your situation out there. While I can afford to buy a volume at that price, I can't afford 10 to try and figure out if i'm going to like just one of them. When I find a series online that I really like I'll usually go out and buy it to support the artist. But a lot of series I find just ok and if given the choice of paying for it or simply be unable to read it, I'd most likely just find something else to occupy my time.
I will have to say though, MG has a point about the trolls attacking websites going legit. Yeah it sucks that they're stopping manga distribution, but they are risking a lot both financially and in some cases criminally. You can't blame the site if it decides there is just too much risk.
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06.16.2010 - 23:05 | TheMikkoI like my free fix of stuff as much as the next cheap and/or poor bastard with poor access to manga and anime, but getting pissy at the people for OBEYING THE FUCKING LAW WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT BREAKING IT FOR YOUR SAKE is still a fucktard thing to do. Bitching and moaning won't help the situation and how the hell is NOT GETTING SUED 'selling out'? The net is full of dumb asses, unfortunately.
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[quote=relaxin]How about pulling a Marvel, and charging people to view unlimited manga each month?[/quote]
That's definitely something I would support. Manga is just like any other entertainment form. For every decent manga you have to sift through 20 or 30 bad to mediocre ones to find it.
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06.16.2010 - 23:30 | BS Digital QI second this. A $5-10 fee to read unlimited manga/anime per month would be much better than spending the equivalent amount on a single hardcopy volume.
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06.19.2010 - 10:26 | PIE!!!
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06.16.2010 - 23:18 | magnutYou know. they could organise a plan to sell manga more effectively.
I think they did it with kingdom hearts 2. A few European publishers first published before tokyopop did it. It may sound strange why. But as a European manga reader those manga's from the US come a bit faster than those in Europe.
(let's face it if we all knew Japanese we would be buying Japanese versions.)
Maybe a strange question but we in europe read US comics. why isn't there ever been a comparison made between the Japan to US market and the US to EU market. I mean the only difference is that there are no scanlaters in the US to EU market. (not mush at least)
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06.16.2010 - 23:27 | UCGrab
how about the users who are not from U.S.A. or japan? most of the manga i read online is manga i cannot get in my country translated or even in japanese (of course, doesn't help my case that i don't know how to read japanese either). i do happily buy any local prints here, but editorials here arent that big, not to mention that a lot of manga scanlated usually isn't picked for translation even up there. added to that, if i wanted to pick a title that was translated in the U.S.A. but not in Argentina, i would have to pay extra for shipping and taxes turning bringing one volume of, lets say, yotsuba, go up four or five times its price (let alone having to pay four or five times what a volume edited here would cost as i would have to pay in american dolars instead of argentine pesos).
i do agree with Raditzdm, the idea of a fee for a translated manga library is quiet appealing, as paying online for a fee in dolars is certainly much less painful than paying for importing the goods (a task that i would only really think of going through for the original volumes in japanese, as in general, i dislike how most official U.S.A. translations are made, wich is a preference, but considering the amount of work and cash that would be involved...i would prefer the original japanese if i could read it).
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06.16.2010 - 23:28 | Mizu Takishima
I think MangaHelper's Open Manga idea is fantastic :D
..Just so long as they stick with legit publishers with [i]authentic[/i] manga on their site. I don't want some 13 year old [i]"manga-ka"[/i] from the states publishing their "works" on that site and earning money for it xD;;;
So yeah, it's a little worry-some, but I'll try to have faith that things will work out :)
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06.16.2010 - 23:28 | musashix
I totally agree with you Marzgurl, usually your analisys about this kind of issues is on the right direction but doesn't cover all the facts, but this time it's almost perfect.
Now let's see the other side of the coin. All of us manga readers, and I Mean ALL, at one point have download or read manga ilegally. I'm not saying this is correct, but why does this happens?. Manga and anime ditribuitors only realese titles with posibillities to be sold, and it's ok, that's their buissines. But if I'm interested in some title not available in my country (Mexico in my case)such as "Bartender" or "Popolocrois" my only option are scanlations and fansubs.
As you said in previous ANE "the industry is still in diapers" an thrust me when I say that the situation is much worse in Mexico. But even so, I prefer to buy and read manga physically and leagelly.
Thank you for this episode and keep with the good work.
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06.16.2010 - 23:40 | The Inkling
Lol get mean Marz! I agree, the whiners need to suck it up. Illegal activity is illegal, if anything the complainers are the pussificated ones, bunch of spoiled brats.
I'm an artist myself (Not particularly for manga or anime) But if I had some bottom feeders leeching for free on something I made to make a profit... Well I'd sue them dead.
I believe, in the art world; don't leech and be a pirate and if you like something pay for it to support it to go farther.
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06.16.2010 - 23:48 | Valzahd
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06.27.2010 - 23:46 | regulus4I agree with you there. Not being able to afford something doesn't mean you are entitled to it for free. Alot of people can't afford much more important things than manga, and they would be arrested for trying to steal things they need to survive.
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06.17.2010 - 06:32 | bravetoasterInkling,
I think you're oversimplifying the matter a bit, but I've got to agree with you and Marz about the whiners--they're just being spoiled brats.
Back to the oversimplification, though: a) lots of manga might not be readily (or at all) accessible to people in some countries (or ever published in a language they know), b) it may be months or years after the initial release before an official (i.e. 'legal' translation) is available for purchase, c) downloading =/= lost money, at least not directly (who's to say that all or most leechers would've ever bought a copy if that was their only choice?), and can still be done by people who own legit copies (or will once they become available), d) laws aren't always correct/just, and e) 'illegal' scanlations, whether you like them or not, could open up an artist/writer's work to a much broader readership, which I'd consider a win, even if you're not getting paid for every single reader you've got (hell, libraries exist, so you're not making money off every reader, anyway).
In short, though--whining, asshole leechers suck, but not all people who read 'illegal' manga suck. If you love something, then support the excellent person or people who made it, if possible ('cause good artists sure as hell deserve our money).
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06.17.2010 - 00:00 | SilvarusLupus
I completely agree with the companies taking action, but I will explain what I am personally upset about.
I've been reading the Pokemon Special (aka Pokemon Adventures) on MangaFox (I like the series don't laugh), and it was just taken down a day or two ago. You see, they don't distribute the Poke Spe here. I would gladly buy it if they sold it here. They have up to vol. 10 (Yellow arc) translated (good luck finding it in stores), but Japan is getting close to releasing the Heart Gold and Soul Silver arc. (I don't know the vol number but Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum arc was up to vol 35 before it was taken down) I only really read manga online to see if I like it. Most of the time I cannot even find manga because the area I live in doesn't really sell very much, so I have to order it from online. *sighs* I know it's not a really good argument, but as I said I know why the legal action is being taken.
I have heard that there is a company that has been translating Poke Spe, but when I try to look for it in stores I can't find it.
Soul Eater was taken down about 3 months ago, should have seen this coming.

