I think the simultaneous release of anime in multiple countries is a great idea. The only question is can companies work together and make it work?

[b]Click [url=http:// thatguywiththeglasses.com /component/content/ article/20909? comment_id=268518#josc268 518]here[/url] to view page 4 of comments.[/b]

atleast Film Brain is here too

My friends at The Rising Sun Podcast talked about this with Professor Otaku from the D2 Brigade. My girlfriend was really mad that she was busy that night and could not be part of the panel.

You can listen to the podcast here: [url]http:// thegeekfighters.com/ podcasts/the-rising-sun/ 384-the-rising-sun- podcast-episode-13- professor-otaku[/url]

My opinion basically mirrors yours; looking towards the internet for profit. I really don't have much to say on the subject that hasn't already been said.

What I will say is that, sadly, these company's success and failure basically mirrors the demand for anime in the US. We need to keep in mind that we are a minority, a vocal minority, but a minority none the less. If the anime industry fails, it's because kids today have lost interest.

So, like you said, we need to get kids interested in anime again, and more importantly, make it available to kids who can't afford DVDs. This leads me back to what we were all saying in the beginning:

Hulu, Crunchyroll, FUNimation= Good

Illegal fan-subs of licensed shows= Bad



PS: While you're watching that podcast, you can check out my own series, Anime For Dummies: [url]http:// thegeekfighters.com/the- anime-mavericks/anime- for-dummies[/url]

Check out my newest episode here. It's about Spice and Wolf: [url]http://blip.tv/file/ 3550920[/url]

not to get deep into it but this is like asking kids not to have premarital sex. your odds are about as good as the church's.

No.. Toonami died because they kept recycling the same shows over and over. As much as I love Dragonball Z, Inuyasha and Tenchi, I can only watch them so many times. When Toonami got moved to the evenings they did the same thing with Trigun, and again, Inuyasha.

They also had a bad habit of taking off series before they finished their run like Yu Yu Hakusho which just abruptly ended one week when it still had another season to go. This may be because the dubbing wasn't complete, I don't know, but they expected us to sit through another 9 months of reruns before they got back to the new parts, like they did with Dragonball Z 50 times.

HERE! HERE! very well put :woohoo:
now if only they'll listen ;)

I already have my Hokuto No Ken (Fist of the North Star) dvd one set on pr-order at the Rightstuf.com here:[url]http:// www.rightstuf.com/cgi- bin/catalogmgr/ Pswyqv3ylqsefH2hds/ browse/item/87111/4/0/0[/ url] BUY!!! and see what a real anime series is! and I do want apologize about what I said about Carl Macak and some of the users last week on this forum. My words were very hurtful and wrong and I take full responsibility for my actions. It's just been so hard being a Macross Fan for 13 years and and having really nothing to show for it and I wanted to blame him for it. I deeply apologize, thank you

Would streaming subbed episodes be a more cost effective way of doing it? Most anime fans seem to prefer subtitles to dubbing anyway so why not give them what they want?

Then when something proves popular enough, they can release the DVD's with a dubbed version so that the voice actors can remain employed as well.

That would be the ideal situation for us fans. We get to watch for free at our own leisure, anime companies still get ad-revenue. Although selling DVDs as well doesn't really make much sense when they could just have an appropriate downloading system you can buy them through.

The problem is though where the hell could they setup that kind of streaming infrastructure and since TV is still the big thing for all ages (yes even more profitable than the internet); I can't really see a streaming service sort of business able to replace that as the anime industry is largely old-fashioned and inherits a lot of the previous generations' ideas and such.

[quote=PuppetShowJustice]
What argument is there for professional dubbing anyways? Who seriously takes their anime hobby seriously and watches dubs? The word dub alone makes convention goers recoil in disgust. I can't imagine these guys have nearly the target audience they think they do.[/quote]

I almost always watch subbed anime, but the dubs of shows like Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragonball Z, and Trigun are fantastic, and arguably better than the originals.

Um, excuse me for a minute but...what the hell are you talking about? Bad dubs did exist, but you do realize that the emphasis is on did, you ask the current generation of otaku, 15-22, and ask them what they prefer, dubs or subs, and dubs will win. I'm sorry but subs automatically being superior is no longer the case. Oh, and if con goers hate dubs, then explain to me the Miniskirt Army and Risembool Rangers?

Ouch. Yeah. Yelling at your customers ain't a good thing D:

A friend of mine and I were talking about the same thing a while back. How companies can and ARE capable of simultaneous, or even CLOSE TO simultaneous releases, but instead, all they do is blame theives on teh internets, who really, are a bunch of stupid 14-17 year olds who don't know any better =7='

I agree totally. One of the problems with the licensed anime market is that it is not trying to cater to its audience. If you won't present the consumer with what they want they will find it in other ways. Right?

Bang Zoom can't be pissed off the people are tired of buying DVD's. Consumers are changing their content delivery method. In the 60's and 70's it was TV, in the 80's and 90's it was VHS. In the 2000's it was DVD and digital downloads. Now it is shifting away from DVD's. Even now I am buying less DVD's and more Digital content. The Music industry had to deal with this. What makes the anime industry think that they wouldn't have to at some point. You would think that if another industry was having trouble that eventually that trouble would end up on your doorstep.

Hell Cable TV networks are trying to deal with the problem (MTV,Comedy Central, HULU, YOUTUBE) with ad supported webcast. Why is anime taking its sweet time to take its place properly in the webspace? Yay for the few companies who are taking advantage but a better plan overall will need to be implemented to bring in revenue as well as deliver content in a timely fashion so that bootleggers loose their need to bootleg.

Simulcasting (point for crunchyroll) is a great idea. dubbed simulcasting isn't impossible. The US is already working with Anime production companies why not work with the TV companies as well to come up with a proper global distribution plan including Dubbing and webcasting so content will roll out faster, better quality, and profitably.

That is all I am saying.

You know what makes me sad, no one liscenced Rideback, what is it about?
A first year College student that gets mixed up in political upheavel due to her ability to masterfuly use a modified mecha bike.

pandorina makes a good point about digital content. I'm not the type to watch dubbed material myself. But I'd at least give a new series that I thought was interesting a shot if I could just grab some popcorn and purchase/download something from my PS3 (or whatever) to watch.

By the time a series I actually care about is out over here I've already seen it through twice. Flashy looking PlayStation Network store ads or something of the like is just about the only way to reach me as a potential new fan. And the trouble is that even if a new show did win me over I'd then proceed to go find a fandub of the rest of it.

You can't market a product that people don't want to people and then get mad at them for not buying it. DVDs aren't exactly going strong at this point.

[quote=asrowland08]This is how our beloved Toonami died out. [/quote]

[b]Toonami did not die from Pirating[/b]. It was CN's lack of interest is pursuing the younger anime audience. More money is made from a domestic in house action series than an acquired anime series in the demographic they are trying to reach. Anime was not beating the ratings from their competitors. They need higher ratings to get ad dollars. No ad dollars no new content. No new content... dead cable channel.

And thank you PuppetShowJustice for understanding. I don't do dubs my self but I see a need for them. They appeal to a wider audience than subs because the audience finds it easier to access a show when it is in their native language. So there you go. :idea:

This brings a very interesting point. If companies are shutting down because of us and because of this they won't dub animes anymore. Why can't we do it? We have sub groups and others. [size=large]Why don't we dub the anime ourselves?[/size]

And why is it whenever the media talk about anime, they always jump over to Hentai? Isn't it kinda a failed argument if you guys can't stay on topic whilst we can blame them to all fields?

because the media fails to realize that Anime is not a Genre it's a Medium!!

[quote=Genshifox]because the media fails to realize that Anime is not a Genre it's a Medium!! [/quote]

Seriously. That'd be like calling cartoons a genre.

That reminds me: it pisses me off when people say that they hate anime, period, for that very reason. I mean, really, you hate every cartoon you've ever seen, ever? Looney Tunes are cartoons. You hate those? Old Disney movies are cartoons. You hate those too? Geez, is there ANYTHING you like?

Over here, downloading is still legal. As long as you don't share it. :P

I love being dutch. :whistle:

By the way, I do kinda agree with Marzgurl, even though I guess I'm a bit of a pirate.

I wish I could be a bit of a Privateer. There's gotta be a way to make money on downloading stuff and watching it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Privateer

To be honest, the "adult" shows of underage girls already grew old a while ago. There's only one or two recent Anime series that were enjoyable lately.

The last I ever saw of Toonami they were airing episodes of Dragonball, followed by Dragonball Z, another episode of DBZ, and maybe one other show before the "Toonami" block ended.

And it was, of course, all episodes that had already been aired.

The hilarious dub job of Yu Yu Hakusho and the fact that they had Sailor Moon was the best stuff to have graced that program block.

Kuwabara's english voice was amazing. Ahhh. Good times.

I missed the last Saturday of toonami but I was watching near the end it was 2-3 hours long(depending on Cartoon networks mood) And 2 eps of Ben10, I think the newer Fantastic four that's now on NickToon was playing, Bakugan, and something else I think. There was no Dragonball, Z, or GT at the end.

Toonami was nothing like it was by 2007.

I disagree that Toonami's apparent demise can be blamed on the internet. The network continues to demonstrate that they are not interested in spending money to gain their audience. If cartoon network played a good title, even one I'd seen on Hulu, I'd watch it. But there is NO WAY to interpret their recent lineup decisions in any way other than that they just don't care about anime fans. They get one or two titles and play them to absolute death- that's why at least my friends and I have ceased to bother. I kind of feel like the network flipped me off.

Why buy the rights to play a title when you've got your own house full of people I will generously call cartoonists ready to produce poorly made crap quickly; and people for some reason choose to watch what is produced? They know they can be lazy and still get viewers, so they do. I am not one of them.

[quote]They appeal to a wider audience than subs because the audience finds it easier to access a show when it is in their native language. [/quote]

What wider audience? In the case of something like Toonami or the ill-fated (but missed) attempts of the old Sci-Fi Channel to bring us anime is one thing. Because they're broadcasting to an English speaking audience that will want to watch something in English. If you want to reach a broader audience you need to put something on television.

Genre fans want to watch material in its native form. These are the people who are actual potential fans of your show and might actually buy DVDs. But you don't market to them because you effectively can't.

Read that again.

You cannot sell your product to it's own established fans.

Seriously. I love things like One Piece (as an example). But holy crap. It came over here and the localization made me want to cry despite the fact that I already loved the show. If that is a studio's attempt to "reach a wider audience" then these guys clearly need to rethink their strategy.

on One Piece, I honestly don't know why it was canned, I have suspicions, cough4kids made it impossible to take seriously forever ruining a good show in the eyes of fanscough, but no real knowledge.

Oh, and one other thing, sub fans are not "realer" then dub fans.

p.s I assume by "native form" you mean "in japanese". If not, I'm sorry.

*deep breath*

[i][b]THANK YOU!!!![/b][/i]

You just summed up, in a few short minutes, everything I've ever ranted to my friends about concerning the state of anime industry. More cooperation between Japan and The West would solve SO MANY PROBLEMS! It'd help production costs and eliminate the financial risk importing shows, it's make simultaneous releases a LOT easier, and you can't tell me that dubs wouldn't sound better if there were some native English speakers involved with the original writing process. Why isn't this happening?

Also, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use Conan as an illustration for the industry's woes. I gotta remember that one.

Hey thanks for crediting me :3

[quote=Kari]I disagree that Toonami's apparent demise can be blamed on the internet. The network continues to demonstrate that they are not interested in spending money to gain their audience. [/quote]
Oh they spend money just not in places that are beneficial. They spent lots of money on Star Wars Clone Wars (they computer animated one... not the awesome one) instead of investing in a well made in house animated series. Then they spent more money on a bunch of Live Action stuff that didn't pan out. So they are trying to gain their audience but they are investing in poor programming decisions.

[quote]Why buy the rights to play a title when you've got your own house full of people I will generously call cartoonists ready to produce poorly made crap quickly[/quote]

Actually they don't have that big a staff a CN Studios and they laid off some more people recently so no can't produce poorly made crap quickly. They can buy it though. Acquisitions... Acquisitions... Acquisitions. :side:

The whole CNReal was A huge waste on time, effort, and money it really set Cartoon network back. I really think they cancled toonami to help pay for CNreal. Whats sad is there still trying to push a few of the failed "real" shows.

It's a shame CN is full of monkeys. All they'd need to do in order to regain my attention is unhalt the production of Samurai Jack.

I think one of the reasons (at least for me) for not buying anime dvds is that they tend to have only a few episodes on each disc (with each dvd costing around $15-20), and with a reasonably long series that money spent adds up to far too much in comparison to many normal tv series - at least this is the case with those not released in box sets.

There are plenty of shows that I really want to own, but it's just ridiculous how much you have to invest at times.

[quote=The Battousai]I think one of the reasons (at least for me) for not buying anime dvds is that they tend to have only a few episodes on each disc (with each dvd costing around $15-20), and with a reasonably long series that money spent adds up to far too much in comparison to many normal tv series - at least this is the case with those not released in box sets.

There are plenty of shows that I really want to own, but it's just ridiculous how much you have to invest at times.[/quote]

Agreed. Just look at something like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. It's a 13-episode OVA series. It has six disks. Yes, you read that right. Here are the number of episodes per disk.

3
2
2
2
2
2

That is freaking insane. It would've been 120 dollars to buy the series. One of my friends got lucky and found a special offer for the series online for 60 dollars. If not for that, I wouldn't own it today, despite loving it so much.

[quote=PuppetShowJustice] [quote]They appeal to a wider audience than subs because the audience finds it easier to access a show when it is in their native language. [/quote]

What wider audience?[/quote] On tv of course as well as online. Playing subbed anime on tv is just not in networks brains. But if you find a well dubbed series like Cowboy Bebop (or just a series that will gain popularity no matter how bad the dub is - DBZ) you will open the anime media up to new fans who may be interested in buying some stuff. It is more accessible. Web simulcasts and Cable Simulcasts are not impossible. Put the dub on cable for the masses. They may get some new fans. And we need to grow our fan base.

Sadly Anime is still considered a niche market. We just aren't buying enough crap as far as networks are concerned.

That's another good point. The 2003 FMA series was 51 episodes long and was spread across THIRTEEN DVDs on its initial release.

Not only is that just dumb but it takes up a LOT of space. I have the old FMA series on a set of two discs laying somewhere around here. And it isn't even that good of a show. The asking price to have purchased them all is nuts.

[quote=PuppetShowJustice] It's a shame CN is full of monkeys. All they'd need to do in order to regain my attention is unhalt the production of Samurai Jack.[/quote]

Blame Lucas Arts for Stealing Genndy Tartakovsky away before he could finish. He's back at CN now and making a freaking awesome mecha anime inspired show... (saw a clip--looks awesome-- I can't wait)

But I would love a movie wrapping up SamJack properly.

[quote=Laharl777]And the bullshit stat that one download equals one stolen copy is just that, a load of shit.[/quote]

Pro-tip: if you download a show, watch it, and don't buy it, then you stole it, because you got the product without having to pay for it.

That's what stealing IS.

FUNimation dose not own Naruto, Viz dose

My apologies, Viz. My point remains.

Naruto was dropped by dattabyo because Viz subs it themselves now. Btw I watch it on Viz's sub/dub anime streming site. I really don't see the point in illegaly downloading Naruto if is avilible legaly. I also because of Viz's streming site plan on Buying the Buso Renkin set as soon as I can.

I find his anger at people wanting things for free to be hilarious, when you notice listings that company puts on the job boards are no pay internships, http:// www.entertainmentcareers. net/company/? company=Bang+Zoom! +Entertainment and the internship listings from them are up every 3 months or so. Work for no pay is o.k. as long as it's in their favor.

I don't believe I've EVER seen a Bang-Zoom dubb. This is possibly the first time I've heard of them. & therefore I absolutely can't disagree that they aren't doing well.

First fansubs were credited with getting anime out to the public a decade ago, & now they're being blamed for the downfall.

Even if people stopped pirating, their profits still won't go up. The ecomony is down, the American dollar is down, & most of their audiences aren't job-aged.

Why can't they do like MMOs & have monthly or annual fees to watch anime online? Parents can afford that. & the companies won't have to spend money on packaging. & if they really want to save cash; stop dubbing. Only 1/10 dubbs are tollerable to listen to, so why take chances at all?

No wait, DO dubb, but let the customers be the ones that vote on whom does whos voice, & charge them money to be allowed to vote & make suggestions. Hell yeah I'd pay to be able to do that.

As for Japan. If they want to save money on animating, switch from Cell & CGI to to Flash.