You Know Who - The Doctor's Name

(40 votes, average 4.70 out of 5)
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  • Sweet Captain 77
    One of your best reviews yet, LAG. John Hurt was the biggest and best surprise in this ENTIRE SEASON!!
  • Spottedfeather
    It wasn't really a surprise. Everybody knew about it before the show aired.
  • LunaBuna
    I didn't. I avoided the spoilers. People who wanted to get spoiled knew, so no, not everybody.

    He's a big surprise, yes, but I'm not exactly sure what he's supposed to be. As LAG said, he's probably who the Doctor was before he took on the name, "the Doctor." I've seen people consider him 8.5 but read a thing that debunked that idea. Either way, that's a version of the character that obviously regenerated, so it still throws off our count and might indeed mean Matt Smith's Doctor could become the Valeyard. I hope it's interesting and not botched in the end.
  • Spottedfeather
    That's another thing that's commonly known. John Hurt is the same person as the Doctor, but he's not the Doctor. Doctor is a title of honour. After the 8th Doctor from the movie, he changed into John Hurt. John Hurt was the one in the Time War that destroyed Gallifrey. That was something that the other Doctors would never have done. So, they disowned him and took the name Doctor away from him.
  • TheNomadDuck
    Actually, there is no evidence that John Hurt Doctor has anything to do with the time war.. It's most likely that he'll have something to do with it, but only because the writers love milking the Time War's tits every time they want something to seem "important". Like that sad excuse for an episode "Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS"

    Honestly though, I just wish they could get over the whole Time War thing sooner than later... The Time War is basically like showing someone Fellowship of The Ring and then The Return of The King. The person will want to see The Two Towers, just because he hopes it will explain what the eagles were all about. It's might be good, but it won't be what we were hoping for...
  • raknai  - ?___? |(• ?•)| (?.? ??)
    I really likee, but I wanted more.
    I dont know what, but I want more.
    And the end...
    This episode almost made my head explode!!
  • MavenCree
    After rewatching the scene multiple times, it seems that The Doctor was upset about Clara seeing River, not Trensalor. He already knew about Trensalor. That wouldn't upset him.
  • ShadowHand  - Have mixed feelings about John Hurt
    Lower the pitch forks and torches not saying I don't like John Hurt I do but I feel there taking a step backwards making him either the 12th or 13th doctor since well up until now it seemed the doctors where getting younger by this I mean doctors 8-11 could be wrong somthing that makes sense since each regen is supposed to allow a time lord to live another several hundred years like his first life. Hell look how young the master got after he regenerated, Liked how he played the great dragon in the merlin tv series and as hellboy's adopted father in Hell boy
  • Dr. Acula
    The 3rd Doctor was hardly a spring chicken so no, the regeneration does not always make them younger, or the same race or gender.

    Besides Time Lords age so slowly that the physical age they appear is almost inconsequential especially in the Doctor's case since he is always forced to regenerate due to unnatural causes.
  • ShadowHand
    let me rephrase then from physical age to mentality now I've only seen the renewed series so I'm only familiar with doctors 9-11 and from them I see a progression to being more and more childish less crotchety the 9th was filled with glee while at the same time having inner torment and survivers guilt over being the last of his kind the 10th seemed even more enthusiastic and fun loving and far less critical. The 9th kept refereing to humans as monkeys where as the 10th never did also the 10th is my favorite mainly because I liked his 3 seasons the most since they seemed like they flowed well from the 9ths season and even including sarah jane and yes I know the actress who played her died in 2011 and couldn't come back for the 11th but no one is really seen again and I know that that is also normal for doctor who at least for the classic series but I like it seeming like all of it was closely connected. Anyway the 11 doctor has to be the most fun loving of them all at least the ones I've seen and that's just it John hurt is great but he seems like he would fit in like the geek said in the time war era or as who the doctor was before he was the doctor though I doubt that's what will happen. Also he's going to be in the 50th aniversarry special so they will have 3 doctors even if 9 won't come back.
  • DangerousLoki
    If you watch the special with the Tenth Doctor for the Children in Need where he meets the other doctor, you'll see he implies that the Time Lords are influenced by their personalities. Each Doctor is an evolution based on the experiences of the last. Hurt's doctor isn't likely to be one of the next doctors but instead is likely going to be the 'Doctor' of the Time War (Since we saw that in the history of the Time War, his real name was recorded meaning that during that time he wasn't viewed as the Doctor during that time which is the implication that everything in this season has been leading too
  • sunnyl
    Sarah Jane Smith was a stupid, pathetic, annoying coward, why the hell is she so popular?
  • Thatpirate
    Except Hartnell, his Doctor just said... Oh dear, my body seems to be giving way.

    Also the 8th Doctor (I don't know how to spell the actor's name), may have died of natural causes. We didn't see his death, nor his regeneration.
  • sunnyl
    Even if you accept that appalling Romana regeneration scene which most fans take pains to block out as its so totally against previously and later established facts about the Time Lords. ie. they all look human, Time Lords still remain the same gender when they regenerate.

    The Comic Relief sketch really does not count as series canon, even by New Who standards which amount to 'whatever we can make up on the fly.'
  • Spottedfeather
    He's the person that's the Doctor, but he's not the Doctor. It goes like this. First Doctor to the 8th Doctor,...the one from the movie. Then, John Hurt, who blew up/destroyed Gallifrey, something that none of the other Doctor's would ever do. So, all the other Doctors have disowned him and took away him being called Doctor. He's the same person as the other, but isn't a Doctor. In counting how many Doctors there are, John Hurt, while the same person, doesn't count.
  • ybrevo  - 100% agree
    My feelings exactly. In the end, it just means that the 11th Doctor is the 12th incarnation.
  • sunnyl
    Seems like a pretty weak way to bring the series to a premature close, why not just put it on hiasis again if they want to end it, it'd be less painful.

    Seriously, if its just the guy who blew up Gallifrey, whats all this nonsense about a great secret and why bring his birth name into it?

    Also, the new series has already made the Doctor 200n years younger than he was in his 7th regeneration, and now they are throwing in another regeneration prior to Eccleston? The Hell?

    Whatevewr they eventually do two things remain clear: One: This Hurt guy is wrong for the part, and 2. It's going to be terrible.
  • Asmoral
    Agreed 100% with this review. I thought the only bad point in it was Jenny being revived, and not because I wanted to see her die. Can't wait to see what they do with John Hurt and whether he will present himself as a villain or an incarnation to be redeemed. Bring on the 50th!
  • MavenCree
    I just don't buy Clara. She's not interesting. She's not involved in the Doctor's life. She goes, she returns home. She's actually NOT travelling with the Doctor. Her character herself is boring.

    Telling us there is a mystery about a character does not automatically make her interesting. Give her a damn personality.

    Victorian era Clara was AMAZING. She was interesting before the doctor showed up and even more so afterwards. Hell, even Dalek Clara was more interesting. Throughout the episode we have this one human who has been holding off the Daleks for how long on her own? And then to find out the truth - that she was soooo clever that the Daleks didn't want to kill her, but make them one of their own - Awesome!

    What's modern Clara done. Her friend died so she's hanging around raising her bratty kids for a while. Noble I suppose, but NOT INTERESTING.
  • PontyMython
    I actually quite liked the way she kept returning home. marked her out as radically different from rose or martha, both of whom dropped everything to go running round in space and time (donna technically did as well I suppose, but she was a grown woman so can make her own life choices). the way clara did keep returning to her sort-of family was an interesting touch that showed her compassionate side in a more subtle way than yelling "SHE'S REALLY CARING YOU GUYS!" at the screen
    Don't forget. It was modern Clara who even made Victorian Clara, Dalek Clara, etc. possible in the first place.
  • Dr. Acula
    With Matt Smith we had maybe the most innocent child-like Doctor, it would be a nice change of pace to have a more weathered and serious Doctor. The two extremes of the Doctor's combined character.

    Now I am not sure how the notoriously cheap BBC got the great John Hurt to be the Doctor but I am thankful for it.

    BTW is River finally finally gone yet? And hopefully the other supporting characters in this episode.
  • Togot  - so...
    Stark raving next?
  • Taboggon
    let's hope so, love me some stark raving.
  • WhovianUnlimited
    I actually agree with you for once, as far a canon goes. In fact, that John Hurt will play The Other was one of my first theories since it's obvious that A) He isn't a part of The Doctor's timeline, as stated by Clara and B) The Doctor knows him. Thus it only makes sense that he's The Doctor before he became The Doctor. The way I see it, he changed his name upon his first regeneration, was contemplating names and then regenerated, or took the name of Doctor and then did some horrendous deed which his next regeneration renounced and somehow struck him from his own timeline.
  • Flaregun  - reply to WhovianUnlimited
    His first regeneration was from Hartnel into Troughton, and Hartnel was "The Doctor" ever since we first saw him in 1963, so he definitely didn't take that name upon his first regeneration.
  • TheIrrehensibleTJ
    What WhovianUnlimited is suggesting is that the first Doctor, Hartnel, wasn't his first form, just the first one we saw, and John Hurt, in this case as The Other, regenerated and than renamed himself as the Doctor.
    Though, I have to say, as Rassilon and Omega aren't important figures in New Who with the complete lack of Gallifrey (honestly I'm not sure either has been mentioned at all, but I haven't seen every episode) I imagine it's probably instead going to have to do with the Time War and his complete genocide of the Daleks and the Time Lords.
  • Thatpirate  - WhovianUnlimited and The Other.
    I agree. I think that the horrendous thing he did was conspiring with Rassilon to trap Omega in that pocket universe (The Three Doctors). He did it to prevent the population of Gallifrey from going mad or dying out. He didn't do it in the name of "The Doctor," because he was betraying a friend.
  • Spottedfeather
    That's not how it is. He is the Doctor from the Time War, where he destroyed Gallifrey, which was something none of the other Doctors would ever do. So, they disowned him and won't let him be called Doctor. He's the same person as the other, but doesn't have the title of Doctor.
  • James Picard
    That was never established. All they said was that he did something horrible in the name of 'peace and sanity'. It was never specified what. True, it would make a LOT of sense for him to be the Doctor from the Time War, but also consider the fact that the Tenth Doctor (David Tennant) wasn't really all that upset that Rassilon and the Master (once his best friend) were sucked back there. I mean, if he regretted it that much, wouldn't he be sad learning that he killed one of his former friends? Again, this is all speculation, and the idea that he's the ninth incarnation makes sense. I just don't think it's wise to say 'It is this EXACT way' before we know for certain.
  • sunnyl
    The Master was never the Doctor's friend, unless its something else Davies has retconned into being. They were adversaries from the start, and later became mortal enemies, mainly due to the Master wanting revenge.
  • AngelsandAirwaves
    Something tells me that we might see something big happening in the 50th anniversary special.
  • sunnyl
    I am strongly pessimistic about that special.
  • wolfwing
    Stupid question...but did anyone else think that was leonard nimoy at first? Just the first time he turned reminded me so much of old spock from the star trek movies.
  • Flaregun  - reply to wolfwing
    Yes! that is exactly what I thought as well! With the slow head-turn and dim half-light, for most of the reveal I was thinking "Nimoy???"
  • Spottedfeather
    I knew that it was going to be John Hurt. Most Doctor Who fans did. So....
  • sunnyl
    Who the hell is John Hurt? why is he famous? Why is it such a big deal that the voice of the dragon is playing the evil Doctor?
    And as someone who only gets his news from the show itself, I had no idea that he was going to be in the episode, nor would I have cared if I had. He is clearly a bad choice for the part though, whatever the final reveal will be.
  • helix
    I loved this episode. Though I kinda wish they either killed Jenny or just had her erased near the end only to come back. Killing her, then reviving her, then having her fade, then having her return kinda felt like a cheap way to up the drama.
    As for Clara I'm interested to see how they develop her now that we've solved the mystery and getting a whole series (maybe) to interact with the doctor. As for John Hurt's character, I suspect he's the the incarnation between 8 and 9 since he's wearing a combo of their clothes.
  • Sir_D
    This episode had me running over every gambit of emotions. I can't wait to see what goes on in the next season and the possibility of going (back) to Gallifrey after having listened to the audio series for the 8th Doctor has me oh so excited. Also, LAG, got to ask when will you pick up the mantle and start doing reviews of the old series (audio dramas and paperbacks included)? Sure, Nash did more of a look at the worst episodes but we want more, lol. It's like chines food, you reviewing an episode... 10 minutes later, blah , blah, 80's joke, lol. Hope you at least think about it should your schedule allow. Great review and can't wait to see more!
  • Spottedfeather
    I only had one emotion through this episode....anger. Extreme anger. We were promised all these answers and got no real answers. Everything we were told, with the exception of the Clara stuff, we had figured out a long time ago.

    Just want to mention a blooper from the episode. When it showed the first Doctor going to steal the Tardis, all the Tardis's in the line were wrong. In the original show, a Tardis in it's default shape, was shown to be a big black rectangle rather like a wardrobe. Not a tube like this episode showed.
  • Kayna
    Glasgow, not Moscow. Glasgow is in Scotland. I sometimes over-think things so maybe I just failed to get the joke. Sorry if that's the case.

    Overall I really enjoyed this episode too. I kind of would have liked to see the whisper men do a little more though.
  • Flaregun
    "The Other" sounds like a nice idea, but from his brief exchange with Eleven it seems obvious he was talking about the Time War and the last desperate act he did to erase both the Daleks and his fellow Time Lords from history.

    I suspect Hurt is just Moffat's "Fuck you, Eccleston" replacement actor for Nine since Eccleston apparently really has refused to come back for the 50th Anniversary special. They'll probably throw out some explanation that Hurt didn't regenerate into Eccleston, but he just had some kind of Alien plastic surgery & restorative medical procedure for some reason right before the events of "Rose".
    I doubt that John Hurt is Nine. Eccleston did a phenomenal job in the role, and I doubt that Moffat doesn't respect him enough to undermine his his work. In fact, I don't think Moffat harbors any hard feelings regarding Eccleston at all. Otherwise, he wouldn't have asked Eccleston to return for the 50th, and The Name of the Doctor was written months prior to Moffat's penning of the 50th, correct?

    The thing about Eccleston is that he made the choice to leave the show, and he technically doesn't *owe* it to anyone to come back if he chooses not to. Yes, I would love to see Nine in the 50th, but if Eccleston doesn't return, he left behind a brilliant performance as the Doctor either way. He made a choice as an actor, and I don't think he should be as panned as he is for leaving the show. But as I said, we still know very little about the 50th, so while I doubt Eccleston actually is coming back, I'll make my conclusions regarding rumors and such once I see it on screen.
  • Dr. Acula
    Following that line of thought. . . it was really John Hurt flirting with Rose? I like where this is going.
    I'm a huge Eleven/River shipper, so I loved seeing Alex Kingston back in this episode. I also very much appreciated that she appeared as a ghost, as I was very apprehensive about the possibility of a post-Library River coming back to life. Not only because River sacrifices herself to save Ten, but because she does so in Amy's name, because her mother asked her to take care of him. As much as I love River, I didn't want that sacrifice to be in vain by River coming back to life. However, with the link to Clara still open, who knows if Clara will save her, as well? "Spoilers."

    I think that John Hurt is Eight, but an older version. After all, Time Lords do age, if extremely slowly in comparison to humans, so it's possible that an older Eight participated in the events of the Time War. I'm not familiar with the Valeyard or the Other, but seeing how Steven Moffat is a Doctor Who fanboy himself, I doubt that he didn't at least consider it to be a possibility that the Valeyard or the Other could be revealed.

    I was initially conflicted by the idea that Clara sacrifices herself to save the Doctor, as I frequently berate Rose for revolving her world around him. But there is a huge difference between Rose crossing dimensions to be with him, and Clara crossing time and space to save not only the Doctor, but everyone he ever saved. She realized that the universe was at stake. I love JLC, but I haven't been entirely amazed with Clara as a character so far. I love Amy, but I think, in a similar way to how I feel about Clara, I like her storyline more than her character overall. Perhaps I'll warm up to Clara more in the future.

    This season has really been a mixed bag for me. I loved some episodes (The Angels Take Manhattan, The Rings of Akhaten, The Name of the Doctor), and I've hated some (The Crimson Horror being my least favorite episode of the season). That said, I highly doubt that the 50th will be just Smith and Tennant, purely based on the facts that Moffat wouldn't *not* pay tribute to the classic series, and Tennant and Piper once denied being a part of it just like a lot of former cast members are doing now. Everything is being kept under such tight wraps, that frankly, I refuse to believe any rumors about the 50th, until I see it onscreen.
  • Sebastian_Havelock
    John Hurt makes anything he's given badass. Including a gold bikini... seriously check out I Claudius.
  • 3DMaster
    There's another possibility. The 8th doctor was the doctor in the one US pilot that never went anywhere except for novels and stuff. It's also the doctor who speaks the idiotic line, "I'm half-human."

    So what if this get retconnec out, or to some and perhaps Moffat never considered part of Doctor Who in the first place.

    What if John Hurt IS the Eighth doctor.
  • excelis

    Paul McGann's doctor has been seen in nu-Who, making him an established canon doctor. He was seen briefly in Eleven's first episode and the latest one; he is the canonical 8th doctor.
  • Spottedfeather
    He's not. He's not a Doctor. The other Doctors took the name from him when he destroyed Gallifrey.
  • LunaBuna
    I understand you have your own point of view on what John Hurt's appearance means, but could you kindly let other posters speculate without you telling them flat-out that they're wrong?
  • excelis
    I don't think John Hurt is an older 8th Doctor and that 11 is talking about the Time War and what he did back then.

    The clue is in the title of the episode, "The name of the Doctor" - it's not the name OF the doctor, but the name "the doctor".

    11 has mentioned a few times that if he did that something he wouldn't be the Doctor anymore, like in Beat Below.

    John Hurt, despite the credit saying this, I think it's simplification for casual viewers, is NOT the Doctor. He's the same individual as the Doctor, but not the Doctor. The Doctor said that he chose this name, that he chose to become the Doctor....and John Hurt is what came before. He isn't Doctor 8.5, new 9, 12, 12.5 (valeyard) or 13 - he is Doctor -1, not the Doctor at all.

    The Doctor ran away from Gallifrey, and I bet it was to distance him from what he had done before he became the Doctor, to distance him from whom he had been, from John Hurt.

    If you listen closely, you can even hear more clues, or as I think, a little bit of validation for this theory: listen to the music.

    The music sounds like Gallifrey - Our Childhood, Our Home and represents whole, pre-Time War Gallifrey. And guess what's being played in this episode? A variation on this theme!
    Time War Gallifrey sounds different, more martial, but this music didn't appear once during all of this.
  • Behellmorph
    This is defiantly the best season finale since the show came back. Man is that ending sweeeet.

    Shame to see the G Intelligence go though but my heart stopped when I thought Jenny actually died.
  • hauntedufo
    This was a good finale. I liked how Clara's arc was resolved, and the characters they bought back (River, Vastra, Jenny, Strax, Dr. Simeon/The Great Intelligence) were used to good effect.
  • SSMatt
    Knowing Moffat he's probably going to turn out to be a Time War missing Doctor, The Valeyard AND The Other.

    With some timey wimey he could be.
  • Shishoka  - Before the Doctor
    The Doctor has sealed the Time War. He has killed. But when he faced the decision to destroy the planet that will birth the Daleks he hose not too despite the threat that they would pose. That's what the Not-Doctor did. There was a threat equal to or worse than the Daleks. When the chance presented itself to destroy this threat before it ever came to be the Not-Doctor chose to do it. He justifies whatever he did in the name of reason and peace but it was not in the name of the Doctor. They probably haven't thought that out but the Doctor is ALWAYS trying to find a better way even against the Daleks. This species he eliminated probably caused massive damage to the timeline and cost him friends that he made but didn't realize would be affected (like that episode from Voyager and yes, I am ashamed to reference that series).
  • Spottedfeather
    You're not that big of a fan of Doctor Who, are you Shishoka ?
  • btstfn
    I don't think he's The Other. The Doctor (Smith) said "He's the one who broke the promise" of the name he chose. If he was The Other, then he had yet to choose the The Doctor as a name. You can't break a promise you never made.

    I also doubt it's The Valiard because the 11th seemed familiar with him in a way he wouldn't be if it was him from the future (between 12th and 13th)

    I think it's pretty obviously going to be The Doctor from the Time War
  • TheProgboy
    My name is Ryan Hynes.... that's eerily similar to yours...
    Sorry but I gotta point this out. The Valeyard isn't what The Doctor will be, it's every bad trait of The Doctor put into an embodiment of what The Doctor would look like between his 12th and 13th regeneration, put together by the Time Lords to be the persecutor when The Doctor was put on trial for Trial of a Time Lord.

    I have to disagree with you on the emotional stretch of Smith's Doctor. He gets a LOT of deep moments, it's just not all lumped together in almost every single fucking episode like it was with Tennant's Doctor.

    I think this was the PERFECT sendoff for River and bringing her back after this would just be disrespectful to the character.
  • batshift  - Thanks!
    I would have never know this, if you don't point that out, Voodoo Master X. I never watched the classic Doctor Who(well, I've seen the very first episode, but that's not much at all), so the concept of both The Valeyard and The Other, were new to me, so thanks.
    I think that John Hurt will not be The Other, it would be just too over the top awesome, if it was true. I do think whoever that he is in fact the reincarnation of the 8th Doctor and he became the 9th after his regeneration. The reason I think this is true, because The Doctor said that he broke the promise of being called The Doctor. That means that John Hurt's character once called the Doctor and the fact that the 11th knows him(he instantly recognized him) and they spoke as the-thing-that-made-john- hurt's-character-to-be- disgraced-by-the-doctor already happened.(The Doctor has a thing for trying to use the correct form of verbs, when it comes to talking about time related stuff)
  • sunnyl
    Nothing about this story worked, I give it 0 out of 5 TARDIS'. And you're not angry, so change your name.


    - They made Gallifrey steampunk.

    - Susan looked to be 30 years old.

    - The dino-lady with her hides nothing veil and stupid Sontaren comic buddy. Gods I hate them.

    - Time travel in dreams. Gah! more magic.

    - Almost killing off Jenny off screen, the one person in the trio I actually like, despite her trumped up combat abilities. ANd then a weak cop out. Twice! Why couldn't they kill off the green skinned witch?

    - Connecting to a library archive in a dream.

    - The Great Intelligence is an extremely weak villain, no wonder the Doctor doesn't remember his not quite appearance 800 years earlier.

    - Fucking River Song! I hate the character and I see no plausibility in the Doctor being in love with her, there is no emotional connection at all between the two characters, they barely know each other. Its all told rather than shown. That kiss filled with me disgust, loathing and rage.
    With Romana you could feel the love between her and the Doctor without a word being said, here, there is nothing, yet they insist he fell in love with a human woman just because she is Amy's daughter, that's it, she is Amy's daughter so he is in love with her. The Fuck?

    - Also, who prepared the fake grave and how did the computer file know about it?

    - Why the hell is his grave so forbidden? Colin Baker didn't think the universe would end when he saw his fake grave, just became a whiny I will die now character until it fell on him.

    The TARDIS dimensional wobbly, I might believe, except we have seen it to blown to pieces twice in the real series without growing massive, and I thought the New Series had decided the TARDIS was infinite.

    - As for the whole magic timestream energy body thing, because the TARDIS rips through time... oh gods.
    And Clara has now beeen retconned into every moment of the old series, despite never having been there because they once again want to try and insist its a continuation even though it shits on the cannon half a dozen times in this episode, like they do in every new episode.

    - Clara still lacks the vibrancy that made her interesting in the past and future, she remains a pale reflection of herself, she isn't the template, she is the half-assed copy.
    She isn't a bad character, but she is more like an extra than a companion, she doesn't sell herself at all.
    And the half dozen episodes of this season was far too short a time to get to know her before this crap.
    And that ties back into downplaying the character, we got to know her past and future selves in one brief episode, here, after 6 we are still only skin deep.
  • sunnyl  - continued.
    And John Hurt, oh this must be impressive, he gets his own thumping text caption introduction, wooo.
    Talk about a weak fucking cop out, like I care?
    John Hurt is the voice of the dragon in Merlin, another series that went nowhere slowly while ignoring every facet of its inspiration. All this big introduction says is that they intend to kill off Matt Smith, a Doctor I actually like... or did like before 21st century Clara turned him into a childish idiot. And they will replace him with some unimpressive old guy, all mopey and with another crap retconed storyline inspired by fanfiction.

    - And that is just the major problems with this story, there are so many minor ones.

    Still I can't blame you for liking this twaddle Last Friendly Geek, you like all the bad episodes and don't like the good ones. Your mind seems strangely wired that way.
  • Gift of the Magi
    While this response is a bit more mean-spirited than I would use, I can't disagree with it either and have more to add.

    What the blue hell are the Whisper Men? No explanation, no build-up...they just suddenly exist in Vestra's time and at in the the Great Intelligence can suddenly time travel? He was defeated AFTER Vestra's time save once, so why would he waste time going BACKWARDS in time to kill Jenny? Why not just jump Clara as she sleeps and kill her?

    And yes I frickin HATE Vestra...wasted, stupid character. I like Strax, but personally I would have stuck him ON the TARDIS as a Companion...about damned time we HAD a truly alien Companion. Jenny exists simply to remind us that Vestra is a lesbian. Whatever.

    River Song...ok, how in the nine hells can a digitized personality trapped inside a computer database forever be able to dream-travel to whatever Vestra set up? Worse, how can it be 'psychicly linked' to Clara? How can THAT make her visible to the Doctor? Touched by the Doctor?

    Also...come call this episode The Name Of The Doctor, and then don't even bother saying it. Cute.

    I will say I am curious about who or what Hurt is...but all in all this was the only thing this episode was able to do right.

    Folks...I think most of the problems with New Who is that before, we could take each story and break it up into 4-6 episodes, taking time to explain everything and develop the story's drama. New Who rushes by so fast it doesn't have time for even basic logic. It just keeps dumping things on you and making you fill in the blanks. It's the Twilight version of Doctor Who.
  • sunnyl
    I think the whisper men are an evolution of the snowmen, as seen by the regenerative ability.
    Although the whole nothing beneath the skin thing was weird. Shock effect regardless of logic I guess.

    There's another problem with the whole name thing which I somehow forgot to mention.
    His name is now the voice key for the TARDIS, since when?
    There was that never followed up plot joke in The Library where he can open it with a finger snap, but every before and after he uses a physical key; its form changes, but its always a key.
    And if it was set up by those who buried him, how did they know his name, and if they knew it, why was it such a secret?

    And of course, who cares what his name is?
    Its really not that important.

    We know he isn't Rassilon or Omega.
    While he may have gone back in time to become The Other, that is fanfic, not canon, and has no bearing on other worlds anyway, its only of historical important to the extinct Time Lord race.

    What we know is this; he is from series relative present Gallifrey which is somewhere in our future.
    In the unaired pilot Susan says she was born in the 49th century, which has to be an Earth calendar reference as its been 10 million years since Rassilon, fits in context too, what would Gallifreyan dates mean to a Terran

    The Time Lords know his real name, it was written on the transcript of his first trial for breaking the non-interference law.
    But the Time Lords also acknowledge him as The Doctor and they never call him anything else.
    It was also at that first trial that The TARDIS was officially issued to the Doctor, for his use in exile.

    We do not know what he did between leaving Gallifrey and arriving in London in 1963, except that The Silver Nemesis obeyed him as did Omega's remote stellar manipulator which he had hidden on Earth at some point in the past. Perhaps he did break the cardinal rule, a rule even greater than crossing his own time stream, and travel back to early Gallifrey.
    Although The TARDIS should have safety measures to prevent that, and the Time Lords should have caught it.

    Sigh, we shall see, the New Series writers make up things as they go along, with no continuity with their own series, let alone the old, Story Arcs aside. ST: Voyager had better canon than they do.
  • KiTA  - Two thoughts
    Two thoughts:

    1. I think they set up what the "Null Doctor" did this season: He destroyed an entire galaxy to stop the Cybermen. Remember that the Emperor said he felt pity for the poor guy who had to push the button. What if the next season involves us watching the "Null Doctor" fight the Cybermen, losing ground constantly, only in the season finale he decides to forgo everything he stands for and kill trillions -- including his companion -- to stop the Cybermen once and for all. (Heck, what if the Cybermen started to "upgrade" Daleks, since they can now upgrade most lifeforms?)

    Heck, what if that's the teaser opening of the next season? People talking about the doctor, saying they asked him for help, talking about his great deads... suddenly the tardis wooshes in, and... John Hurt steps out?

    2. Null spoke to the 11th. The others were all echoes, ghosts in time. That suggests that Null was *actually there, in the timestream*, not just an echo of previous doctors.
  • danatblair  - I like KiTA's theory
    While I suspect that the 8.5 timewar theory is probably closest to correct, I think that assuming the non-Doctor did a single act could be a mistake. What if he didn't just end the timewar, what if his lesson from the experience is that he should have finished matters with his enemies a long time ago. Tired of losing things he cared about, he traveled through time commiting atrocities .... such as maybe destroying a galaxy to destroy the cyber... and other things like that. He did not need to do a single bad act, he could have spent an entirelife doing that stuff.
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