Digimon Tamers: Part One (Cont.)
Written by JesuOtaku Wednesday, 30 November 2011 19:57
Part 3
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You can see Konaka's director's notes/journals on Tamers here
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12.01.2011 - 01:39 | Furrama
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11.30.2011 - 21:16 | Vongola 11th
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11.30.2011 - 21:42 | LudicrumI've been waiting for this.
After viewing your retrospective of the previous Digimon series I became interested, then went ahead and watched Digimon Tamers (Japanese version) so I could enjoy your retrospective of that series all the more.
Got to say, I was not prepared for what I saw when I watched Tamers, and that made me that much more eager to see what you had to say about it.
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11.30.2011 - 22:03 | FlightfootOkay, so you did know about Ryo. I hadn't watched all of your 02 reviews, so I didn't know that you had referenced him. I remember when I first learned about Ryo's dimension-hopping. I was thrilled that Adventure wasn't just a show in Tamers. I can't wait for your next review!
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i love watching her reviews because it makes me think and gives me insight that i never knew and never thought about.
i'm glad she posted it today i had a crappy day in high school and i read she was posting this one up tonight so this is what kept me going threw my day
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11.30.2011 - 23:15 | Draggonslayer26I love digiemon and my opoin 2 of tthe saddest monent in this seaires are coming after they come back to earth... and JO not all guys watched sailormoon beacuse of the skirts i actully liked the show i was psised that beacuse the 2 last sailor scouts are lesbian couple so they cutt the last season
yours and linkara restrosptives are someof the best part of the site
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11.30.2011 - 23:31 | droppingpenny
I don't know if you read the comments on blip so I'll just re-post my comment here as well:
By explaining Ryo's back-story you made me wish that Digimon Tamers had been about him instead of well... Tamers. Wouldn't it be much more fun to see his journeys through different dimensions instead of this and having a solid connection to Digimon Adventure and 02?
On an unrelated note: I hope you'll review Xros Wars as well it was a very fun series.
... Oh and keep up with those retrospectives they are really awesome!
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12.01.2011 - 07:48 | WisteriaThey already did that 4 games of that mind you.
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12.01.2011 - 11:27 | droppingpenny
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12.02.2011 - 19:46 | Wisteriabecause they already had 4 games of that, which already explained everything it could on that subject. Trying to explore it anymore would have been beating the dead horse, rehasing the same things all over again. Besides that Ryo's story had ended, in the last game, there was no reason why he needed another series based around him, because there was no more conflict.
Besides the director of Adventure series admitted that they couldn't make a sequel to the season (probably because all its creators were already tired of it) and it too many plot holes to have a continuation which would require some type of conflict--which is impossible, without river stomping all over the ideals put forth by that season (which again the director of the Adventure series acknowledged).
Both Toei and Bandai wanted for Tamers (it was originally planned to be a direct sequel) to be its own season because 1. they felt that Adventure didn't really represent Digimon faithfully 2. the writers of 02 didn't have it together in terms of planning they meet to decide on the next season during the final episodes of each season, the last episodes of 02 were all last minute decisions and scripts so they had a feeling that the season would be impossible to continue based off of that alone, and they didn't want to play guessing games (Adventure was done last minute too but much of the staff --except for the head writer-- was there for deciding the last episodes so they have no excuse for the plot holes in 02). 3.The characters in Tamers appeared in the last Ryo game anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered either way. 4. said video game was only made after they decided on the characters for Tamers.
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12.03.2011 - 02:01 | droppingpenny
Oh well, i wished they at least told a different story instead of going the "darker and edgier" route. The writers obsessed with the psychological torture of the characters so much in my opinion that they made the series feel very clinical and soulless, if they at least tried to recapture the spirit of the original Adventure I would have been satisfied. I guess there is no point in complaining, what's done is done.
In the end I got the series I wanted with Xros Wars even if I had to wait for another 9 Years.
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12.03.2011 - 05:37 | WisteriaToei and Bandai do not use the Adventure series to define the franchise, in fact they consider the adventure series to be a deviation from the franchise. Xros Wars also deviates from the digimon franchise as well.
I also wouldn't call Tamers dark, and filled with psychological torture considering that unlike season 1 these characters are much more realistic to their setting. It had a story to tell and it told it well, without veering off in another direction.
Adventure is not a perfect series, it has its own problems. I find it ironic that the staff of Adventure liked Tamers more though.
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12.04.2011 - 00:46 | droppingpenny
I understand they don't like Adventure, but not just the concept of adventure is what makes it iconic it is the kind of story it tells. Xros Wars is in that regard VERY close to adventure, because it tells a story of a hero who rises to save the world through courage friendship and hope. This premise in my opinion is missing in Tamers, frontier and savers and the staff might have liked it better, but the only reason tamers was popular was because of Adventure and 02.
The creative staff tends to hate things that need a lot of work and don't allow creative freedom, this is why they probably liked Tamers more but the audience is who determines quality and while Tamers was not bad I think Adventure cemented itself in audiences minds as superior for a reason.
Just because the production staff doesn't like it doesn't make it less iconic which it is in a lot of ways. Adventure is not perfect, but this is also not the point I try to make.
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11.30.2011 - 23:51 | mandroscant wait for part four.
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12.01.2011 - 00:02 | Karutomaru
Shiiiite. That game canon explanation blew my mind. I wouldn't have minded playing THAT. "Great scott" indeed. That was almost like explaining the science, reasoning, and plot behind Resident Evil.
Also, you point out the 4 gods of the Digital World, but, yet again, you fail to bring up the demon lords. Beezlemon is a demon lord! Daemon was a demon lord! They are a recurrence in the franchise! Address them!
How ironic that the latest episode of Extra Credits discusses singularity and the concept of artificial intelligence that Digimon Tamers seems to be discussing.
I didn't even know Antlymon (Yes, I believe that is her name. I have her figurine.) was a deva, but I remember her so well... oh I'm sorry, Digimon don't have genders. I remember IT so well.
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12.01.2011 - 09:02 | edzoologist
She might be waiting to bring up the Demon Lords until Frontier or Savers, since those two series have Lucemon and Belphemon respectively. IN fact, at this point, I think only the Demon Lords of Wrath and Envy haven't appeared in some form, as I believe the Greed demon Lord is in Xros Wars(I forgot his name).
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but with predominantly-male/female characteristics. It sounds weird, but there are people like that who exist in real-life anyway. Also, it's sci-fi/fantasy, why couldn't that work?
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12.01.2011 - 00:50 | classicgameraah rio the only character in digimon tamers i hate, now for different reasons then before. being a fan of the diimon series and knowing little to nothing about the rest of the franchies other then the original tomogochi toys, and the first three playstation games, i knew nothing of rios conection to the digimon franchise, and to me he just apeared as this seasons "perfect charater" like kari from the first two seasons and is a completly unneccery character thrown in at the last minute, but unlike kari who is a perfect personality chracter(ie is completly sefless, dreams of wrold peace. ect) rio is depicted as a perfect life character, we are told he is a prodigy at the digimon card game, and implide a natural produgy in digimon tameing as well, posessing and being able to control such a powerful and feral partner, and is litteraly givin every thing the other characters had to earn through some kind of emotional strife or by forming a bond, rio is given a powerful digimon partner, given the abilty to fuse with his digimon into mega level off screen, and is implied to be given a romantic atraction from the female lead rika during the final fight with the d-reaper(yeah he saved her but henry and takato have saved her before as well and she never gave them a smile and a blush). now i see he is not a produgy he's just been at this alot longer then the others but he is still given a mega form off screen and is given a love intrest and is still an unneccery character that was thrown in and now i see it was to make another connection to the digimon game franchise which is a stupid reason.
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12.01.2011 - 07:54 | WisteriaRyo's relationship to Cyberdramon is similar to Takato's relationship to Guilmon, its hard to explain but you have to know about the games yourself in order to understand it. He was dimension hopping in his own games so him appearing in the Tamers universe isn't out of the question.
Ryo had also already known Rika before everyone else in the cast got to know her.
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12.01.2011 - 00:59 | rubensaaw JO you're the best freaking reviewer on this site! i could watch your stuff (and i have) over and over again, seriously screw "that guy with the glasses" should be "that girl with the absurdly long but extremely entertaining in-depth anime reviews"!
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12.01.2011 - 01:32 | The Guy that Died in MM Zero 1
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'anime abandon
'the voice of the rika in the spanish version some like older or something(it just stands ups and make me question).
'and i saw this whole serie but can not remember the ending at all i think it has to do with the girl with puppet being recued of "the jelly".
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I'm somewhat surprised you didn't mention the reference to the story of orochi made with orochimon, as they played it out fairly accurately in the episodes if memory serves, but than, this part is long enough without that, and it may have taken too long to explain for such a minor part of the series, so i can see why you left it out.
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12.01.2011 - 02:08 | petrinobeing an avid surfer ive often come across...disturbing digimon fanart. and i never understood it, or furries in general. but for some reason i have a glimpse into their psyche after hearing that yellow digimons voice :S
im disturbed by my own subconcius.
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12.01.2011 - 02:11 | ManWithGoodTaste
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12.01.2011 - 02:44 | RulkI love you JesuOtaku. I know I shouldn't because I've never met you and probably never will but I want to walk around in a zoo with you while we hold hands and provocatively eat icecream cones filled with vanilla ice cream.
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12.01.2011 - 03:41 | trlkly
Does anyone else always hear Guilmon's name as Gyomon? It was really pronounced at the end.
Oh, and way to cut off at the coolest part, JO. :P
I'm also curious how you're going to do parts 2 and 3 after this really long part 1. I must admit that you are already revealing things about the show that I didn't get when I watched it. For example, the whole digignome thing seemed more magical rather than scifi. The idea that knowing about the anime and card game is what allowed the creation of partners--that is also something I missed. As was why the two new partner digimon devolved--I thought it was just necessary for them to be partners, not because they lost power or were being punished. (Which makes Leomon make more sense.)
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12.01.2011 - 03:44 | pokemega32Hey again. More comments time. Though honestly, JO, you're nearly flawless with this one so far. I can find so little to correct. xp
1. Just thought I'd say this in case anyone brings it up. Yes, Renamon does say that Digimon do not have genders in the original Japanese version.
No, that does not mean this applies to every series. The fact that parents exist in the Xros Wars universe means that not every series follows the same rules.
2. If I recall correctly, Makuramon's hand didn't slip off of Culumon's cage in the original. He purposefully let go in order to go get Majiramon as he figured it would be the easiest way to get the cage free.
3. Actually, the last WonderSwan game doesn't actually explain what happens to Ryo after Milleniummon's fusion with Monodramon. It's just assumed that he decided to live in the Tamers dimension over the Adventure one because he was still angry that the Chosen Children had lied to him during the D-1 Tournament.
Of course, there's no explaining where his family comes from in his new home universe.
4. I'm pretty sure they didn't say anything about Beelzebumon having deva powers in the Japanese version. Also, I don't really think Impmon looks much like a cat.
Either way, he is absolutely nothing like a deva, being an Ultimate Level Demon Lord rather than a Perfect Level Holy Beast.
5. The story "Tamers 1985" (I think that's what it was called) detailed the original Digimon project by the Wild Bunch. In it, the Digimon had clearly become sentient creatures that could somehow access the real world before the project was even shut down. I don't remember if that was because of the changes Shibumi made, or if the DigiGnomes had interfered earlier on.
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12.01.2011 - 03:49 | Nagneto
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12.01.2011 - 04:28 | KuroNeko
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12.01.2011 - 04:35 | AaronJer
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12.01.2011 - 04:37 | BooRat
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12.01.2011 - 05:30 | TheGreatEscapist
I am really enjoying these Digimon retrospectives. The nostalgia brings me comfort. I honestly never thought I'd be nostalgic for something I watched when I was twelve. (Holy crap! That was ten years ago!)
I only watched the first three seasons, and even then I only got to watch only about half the episodes per season (thereabouts), what with being stuck in Russia and Central America at the time these shows were on the air.
I think I might just rent the DVDs to catch up on the episodes I missed.
By the way, I saw Part One of your Digimon Adventures review, and even though I didn't get to watch any of his episodes, already I love Wizardmon. (May Programmer rest his pixilated soul.)
From this season, my favorite was always Renamon. So awesome!
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12.01.2011 - 22:03 | pokemega32What do you mean by "I wish more was finished before the initial release of this season"?
Tamers began airing in Japan immediately after Zero Two ended.
I'm not sure what country you were watching it in, but any delay between the series had nothing to do with its production.
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12.01.2011 - 07:36 | Shinigami
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12.01.2011 - 08:10 | WisteriaGood review
1. Renamon saying that Digimon do not have genders is true for the Digimon franchise (unlike Pokemon digimon evolutionary lines are not set in stone, they can evolve into a digimon of another gender very easily--eg: devimon can evolve into ladydevimon) in general but not for specific anime series.
Tamers was made off of the Digimon franchise not Digimon Adventure so it has more in common with the franchise itself than with Adventure.
2. The Wonderswan didn't really say that but it left itself open enough for you to make up your own explanation. That's just the common explanation that people have for it. Not really a plot hole just not explained.
3. Also in the original version the anime series they watched wasn't Digimon Adventure, Adventure world doesn't exist in Tamers universe. Also the dub made a mistake with Shibumi he fully intended for kids to make a connection with Digimon.
To find out more about this season I recommend you read Digimon Tamers 1984 a short story written for adults made to accompany this series. You can find it here==>withthewill.net or just google search it the story was translated in english a long time ago.
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12.01.2011 - 22:04 | pokemega32You're actually wrong on the third point. Konaka states right on his website that the Tamers did indeed watch Adventure and Zero Two as anime in their universe.
They just never directly stated it in the original Japanese version.
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12.03.2011 - 02:08 | WisteriaToei and Bandai's outright stated that it wasn't Adventure series in an interview (keep in mind this was still when he thought that Tamers would end up being a sequel). Toei and Bandai really don't want the Tamers universe to be connected to the Adventure universe (because the canon of the Adventure universe was all over the place and they wanted to start anew).
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12.01.2011 - 08:11 | TrencherI never watched this show but its a very interesting review. Great work and looking forward to part four.