Yeah, I pretty much agree with this word for word. You should know, however, that there isn't a single smiley reference in the movie that isn't in the book, including the crater on Mars.

I liked 300, though.

I didn't notice the slow mo either for a bit. But I thought it was effective in certain moments.

I didn't miss the squid. The squid sucked in the comic.

I wouldn't buy a giant squid teleporting between dimensions.

Demi-god throwing temper tantrums? Yeah that's slightly more believable.

S'far as The Comedian, he was being used by Nixon to keep track of the other superheroes. He tracked Veidt and his plans to Antarctica, and voila.

I love Linkara's writing and I generally agree with him, but I felt that his take on the film was a bit, well, harsh. I get some of it, but a lot of felt like he just wanted to be mad at it and needed 'this thing' and 'that thing' to complain about.

He's certainly free to have that opinion. It's just not mine.

I think that your summary and statements were much more in line with my way of looking at it. Critical when necessary, but also complimentary when necessary.

To be fair, I didn't really agree with your opinion on the music placement. Again, I get it, but don't agree. In regards to the 'squid,' I wholly agree. I have read the comic (no, I don't own it) and I didn't get all the hubbub about its absence. I think the Manhattan part worked fine. It was all built up and followed through with.

Honestly, it's just nice to see an array of opinions on something like this. It's good for both us and the genre of film.

Haven't seen the movie (The premiere is in a few days) but I read the movie and I think i'm gonna be happy with the ending. When I read the comic I didn't like the Squid/alien, I felt it like Alan Moore lost all his creativity so he ended it Manga style with the giant squid (But that's just me, I know i'm gonna get a beat off for that lol) Not a fan of the comic, but pretty sure i'm going to enjoy the movie, so can't wait!

Once again, great review Spoony, you are the best

I like the way they give the back story of the characters. Because I haven't read the book. I had no idea who these characters are, so they did a good job giving the characters identities. The action and story telling were good. I'm not sure I like Dr. Manhattan being the threat that unites the world...it makes since him being a god and all and it makes more since to me than having a giant squid/alien or whatever being the world's common enemy.
This may seem like a dumb question, but is the squid really that big a deal? I was taken aback by the purple tiger and as I understand it, the same tech that made the purple tiger made the squid...? The tiger seemed out of place, so I can't imagine them putting a giant squid in there.
I've gone on too long but I like the film and maybe I'll read the book

Though I still say I think the squid was missed. Now, I'll admit, I wanted to see the squid in live action, but more, I think it's back story, with Ozy hiding away artists and various others to build it, was something that made his characters so much more...evil. I mean, these are the thinkers of his day, the ones who's gifts can make them remembered for ages to come, and he uses them, before blatantly murdering them.

This is only a problem for me because he knew them. It was even stated that one or two of them met him at one point, making them known to him, and thus, killing them was a much more personal thing. This was something I think they tried to write around, and give to the servants, by expanding their number, but then, the servants were always dedicated to him, a fact he makes a point of saying, these however, were just people with the skills he needed, and then discarded.

Now, he does kill millions later, but I think it's more personal for him, to know who exactly he was killing, rather than a horde of faceless innocents. And yeah, changing the method of the mass killing kind of leaves a gaping plothole for how the Comedian figured all this shit out.

in a way, the new ending is more plausible and believable (the squid has a lot of wtf going on), though, as you pointed out, it isnt as convincing. after all, Dr. Manhattan was American, so I find it hard to believe that the Russians will be all "lets be friends now" even though he supposedly did blow up half the New York. They would sooner say that Americans got what they had coming by keeping him around would be enraged at the attacks in Europe/Russia. When looking at it like this, an alien threat has much more weight to it. I mean, aliens attack. If the humanity does not unite for that, I dont know if there is anything else for what the countries would be willing to set their differences aside. But it was okay, the ending was okay. Not great, but just meh.

As for characters - i think the guy who played Rorschach just out - acted them all. His preformance was nothing short of mindblowing and it made an okay movie into an awesome one. His parts I could watch over and over again. The way he immersed himself into the character - its hard to describe, really, you need to see for yourself. If they got Rorschach wrong, this movie would not have been half as enjoyable.

The motage at the beginning - The times are changing - was very neat. Kudos for that.

And lol Nixon - I kept expecting his head to float in a jar every moment

*MAJOR spoilers ahead!*

Look Linkara, I have said many times that I love your reviews, and that is the absolute truth. Unfortunately this video marks the first time I have disagreed with you to the point of feeling it is necessary to write a rebuttal. I apologize if my points have been brought up already by others, and please understand I am not trying to insult you on a personal level, and I understand your "disclaimer" that the video was made directly after you saw it. Also, I understand Linkara that my points weren't all mentioned by you, but instead by viewers who commented. If you can't tell by the end of my post that I loved the film (even more so after my second viewing), this sentence will make it clear. I thought it was by far the best adaptation it could have possibly been, and kicked ass from start to finish. So here I go.

Whether you wanted it to or not Watchmen was going to made into a film. If you have yet to read the articles about how potent Zack Snyder's opposition was to keep the film as faithful as it was I suggest you check it out. I really don't understand how you can be angry when(besides the ending)there was so little tampering with the story. For the most part the changes seemed to be simply made so they could be kept in, but in a more time efficient manner.

The more I read people complaints about the squid the more it seems like people were just looking for things to complain about. I have yet to read a single convincing argument on how an alien squid like monster(or a humanoid alien for that matter), is even close to being as menacing/threatening than a being who is held up as a god. Perhaps I am in the minority, but an attack of the magnitude in the film's version makes Ozymandias's plan much more feasible. I think it is also important to understand how difficult using the squid without turning the ending into a joke would be. There is no way in hell the Russians would stand down just because NYC had been almost completely destroyed. If anything they would utilize it as a distraction, and attack while all American attention was on NYC. My only criticism is that NYC should have been attacked first, since it would keep other countries from mistaking the attacks origin. It's possible they would have mistaken the perpetrator as the Americas, and counter attack. You asked how Ozymandias "would keep the threat alive?", but that is a simple question to answer, as long as Doc Manhattan is still believed to be living the threat is still there.

I think using Doctor Manhattan as the fall guy was by far a much better choice. The world is already terrified by what he is capable of, after his interview he starts looking extremely unstable, dangerous and disconnected to the public. Not to mention he is immortal, as well as indestructible since no one even "Ozymandias: the smartest man alive" can do anything besides distract him. I could sit here and write even more reasons why Doc was a better scape goat, but this is already getting extremely long. As for Manhattan's voice, I have been hearing Billy Crudup was using Hal 9000( from 2001) as an inspiration, which when you think about it was a brilliant idea.

I would love to keep writing this, but due to the length I will only bring up one more point, which is Rorschach's death , and the effect on Nite Owl(and his location). The lack of reaction in the comic from Dan is one thing that bothered me greatly, and made me despise him instantly. Dan cared about Rorscach enough to break him out of prison, and was his partner for a huge stretch of time. However, once Rorschach is eviscerated Dan seems to not even care enough to notice. Instead he goes and bangs Laurie, and falls asleep. Once again I have yet to read a single argument that proves Moore's execution of Rorschach's death was anywhere near as effective. Not only did it make the event much more devastating, but it also kept Dan looking like a decent person.

Look Alan Moore is a great writer, but his work is not infallible. I really think that one of Moore's few weaknesses is that he doesn't completely understand human relationships when it comes to friendship. I don't think his intention was to make Dan look like a piece of shit, but in my opinion that is exactly what he did. People don't just brush off their friends being slaughtered without even mentioning it(regardless of the reason), only to go have sex. You can criticize the ending of the film all you want, but it was also the only majorly flawed part in the graphic novel as well.

Apologies for the comment above, I meant to post it on Linkara's Watchmen video! So once again I am sorry!

"You should go in there knowing nothing" ? Anyone who really goes in there knowing nothing and sees (at least the german) trailers only will go in there thinking "Oh well, it's gonna be a superhero movie. Effects, action... all in all light entertainment" (As the trailers in germany go: every hero is shown in a classic comic-adaption way, the smily comes up. End...)
I got as far as to the funeral and I began to realise that I won't get what I was expecting. And, had there not been this awfully streched love subplot, it wouldn't have bothered me.
But as it was, I was too unshure after my initial fault to actually get what kind of movie it wanted to be.
I remember asking myself "Oh, it wants to show us how disturbingly dark even a (super)hero's mind can be?" only to get a lengthy lovescene shoved right into my face.
As it did that about three times in a row, by the time Nightowl (or whatever he spells himself) got laid i gave up on sorting out what it wanted to be and regarded it as a selfparody. The mars-smily, the uncalled for creation and sudden demise of manhatten's mars cruiser spaceship whatchamacallit (WHY DOES HE EVEN CREAT IT HE CAN TRAVEL FASTER THAN THIS THING EVER COULD) and the - at least in the german dub- totally overdramatic, totally plotirrelevant "The commedian is my father" scene did NOT help proofing me wrong.
At the end of the movie i went out, my thoughts on the movie shattered yet again by the ending, thinking "this COULD have been fun if I had known what to expect from the begining..."
I went into the net, looked up all the german reviews out there (all with verry high ratings) but never once did someone mentinon the kind of feeling i got from going in this thing- because they all read the graphic novel before seeing it. (which is quite tricky in krautland. i never saw this comic lying around in a local bookstore)

So trust me when I say: Someone who really manages (in the US this actually seems to be an achievement) to only judge this thing by one or two trailers will not really enjoy it- just out of sheer confusion.

on a side note, you an linkara said that the latex chick (i won't bother looking her name up) had not that a big roll in the comic. Had this carried on in the movie, the pointless lovescene 1-3 had been much shorter or even totally cut out.
This way my total confusion would have been reduced to finding out "this is not an action movie" in the first quarter of the film. And that shows best that sometimes unnecessarily emphasised lovestories do not improve a movie automatically but rather turn it into a boiling pool of awkwardness.

And to end in a better mood:
Spoony, your review really fits my needs for this movie more than linkara's. While it was nice hearing what a big fan thinks of the faithfulnes of the movie, your take on it points the good and bad parts out in a more comprehensive way. And, of course, you are fairer to it than Linkara is. thanks for the much needed background update of this movie!

SPOONY HAS A MITCHEL POSTER?!?!

MamamamaMitchel!

You watch Joe Don Baker films?

It looks like Spoony wins this round! I thought you're review was much more comprehensive and appropriate review of watchmen, you focused on Watchmen as a movie alone, as it should have been because that's what I want to know about, where as Linkara was constantly comparing it to the graphic novel.

And Linkara was definetly that 3rd type of person you described, someone who likes Watchmen to much.

The dialouge was actually my favorite part of the movie, the richness of the dialouge from Manhattan and Rorschach really helped me understand the mindset of those characters even more than the flashbacks did.

Good review Spoony. Sorry Linkara, but remember I heart you!

I must agree with you in every point you made. Maybe its becouse I'm Watchmen novice I could enjoy from that movie more than everythinhg knowing purists ever could. Gateway o grafic novel? Thats what it surely is.

I quite agree with you, but I have a different interpretation about the end, with USA and the soviets joining up against Dr. M. What I inferred from the final scene is that, due mainly to the god-like nature of Dr. Manhattan, the world powers realize that he does not like us blowing the planet in pieces, so he decides to smite a few of us to keep us where we should be: quiet at home and not trying to kill each other. I mean, it's something like "hey, I prefer you to hate me than each other, so I am doing you a favor". I know this does not really fit with the image of detachment from humanity that the film shows, but that was the first impression I got, and I guess that is what the script writers could have had in mind: Ozzymandias turns a god into a devil so the whole world has a cause to join up against him, but realizing that we got what we deserved.

That's about it. Just my thoughts.

I think I agree with you that it's very much a good faithful adaptation. I feel it was sort of like The Dark Knight with both films very much being great films with both of them having flaws. I had nothing against the ending whatsoever as whether it's a squid or Dr. Manhatten doesn't matter. It was the symbolism behind it that the world was made to be afraid of a bigger threat and must unite against it and what bigger threat can you get than a god? The script was more or less hit and miss, some lines that were taken directly from the comic worked great whilst others just didn't have the same effect as it did whilst reading the novel. My only other main issue was the sex scene after Nite-Owl & Silk Spectre put out the fire. It was way too over-done, the soundtrack just made it tacky and in the end if they made it half as long they could've put something else more sginificant in (i.e. Hollis' murder). However, I can't complain too much about scene's being cut out as it'll all be in the extended cut which if the additional scene's are as faithful as the rest of the film then it could very much be the most "complete" comic to film adaptation out there.

I guess people are just getting denser as a species, but I haven't read the comic (YET), and I completely understood what was going on. I thought it was masterfully written and I really liked the characters. I do agree that some of the scores were a little ill-timed, though, especially the 99 Red Balloons. It just sort of felt "thrown in."

I'm definitely going to buy the comic book now that I've seen the movie. They've sold me, and that's saying something because I still haven't read Lord of the Rings or the Narnia books.

were Spectre's tits any different ?

see, this is why i like spooney and not linkara. even though he didn't love the movie he at least puts some decent thought and context into his review, and while he's not feeling well. linkara's whole crazy nerd fanboy rant was ridiculous, and if he said "ambiguous" one more time I think my head was literally going to explode.

anyway, my biggest problem with the movie was the soundtrack, so you nailed that. the hallelujah sex scene was sooo awkward it wasn't even funny, all because of that song. and its so sad because a lot of the score in the movie was awesome, but kind of tucked away underneath, whereas song picks like that and those you listed as well as the blatantly obviously ripped off ride of the Valkyries from apocalypse now was just ridiculous. they often didn't fit the scene or context of what was going on and it was just horrible. like you said, i think, they drew too much attention to themselves and completely detracted from the movie.

other than that i thought like you say it was a really great adaptation. things of course have to change in comic book movies especially, so larger audiences will understand. i actually think the ending with dr. manhattan being the threat almost makes more sense than the squid. if you think about it, the comic sets up that he gave all these different people cancer, so opinion is already turned against him. and it would have taken a long time to set him up just for that one fall, to set him up for the bigger fall is even better. and i think the angle they tried to play up in the movie was that humanity would try to find a way to beat him together, or at least that they would work together from now on to prevent him from nuking their cities any more at least. hence why they said the world will be fine as long as they think he's watching. what they did was take the mutually assured nuclear destruction and replaced it with assured destruction from doctor manhattan, so instead of us vs ussr, it's world vs manhattan, they've just shifted the focus of the "cold war".

overall, i thought it was very good. can't wait for the directors cut dvd. not the best comic movie ever, but far from the worst.

Punky wrote:

Haven't seen the movie (The premiere is in a few days) but I read the movie and I think i'm gonna be happy with the ending. When I read the comic I didn't like the Squid/alien, I felt it like Alan Moore lost all his creativity so he ended it Manga style with the giant squid (But that's just me, I know i'm gonna get a beat off for that lol) Not a fan of the comic, but pretty sure i'm going to enjoy the movie, so can't wait!

Once again, great review Spoony, you are the best

How could anyone bash you for explaining your opinion in a respectful manner

I too thought the squid was sorta of a stretch in the original >.>
But I agree with Spoony, Fighting a God? Lol yeah thats going to work

Just wanted to say, haven't seen the movie yet, read the comic many times, and so far until payday i'm working my way through the Motion Comic. Thought I'd give my thoughts on it since I haven't seen it mentioned yet.

So far I have to say that if people don't like the movie in theaters, then they should definitely check out the motion comic. The animation is a bit clunky/hokey in parts, and as far as I can tell theres only one person doing the voices for all the characters, but for what ever reason, it's working out really well so far.

Like Spoony said, like an audio book (sort of), its enjoyable to have things read to you, in my opinion like the old radio shows where the actors had to basically create everything using their voices and the dialog. Yes they used the original comic and animated it as well for the Watchmen, but it still makes me think of that.

Mind you, it's broken up into 12 chapters (files), just like the original comic, but this isn't cutting anything out. I haven't finished it yet because it's looking like the whole thing is going to be about 5+ hours, but I'm looking forward to it. Just like I'm looking forward to going to see the movie in theaters, squid or no squid.

I liked it...but then again I went in blind. The only prior Watchman exposure I had was the "motion comic" which is well over 5 hours in itself and I hadn't finished when I went to see Watchmen (I think I got to the chapter involving Rorschach's origin before going to watch it.) I finished it and must say, I'm not sure which ending I prefer. Both are rather implausible, and the "Squid" ending made me think, "Really? The book is based in a fairly realistic world (well maybe aside from Dr. Manhattan and Nixon's 5 terms.) this 'alien invasion' ending seems odd to me." Then again, if everyone knew Silk Specter was close to Jon, why not have her in custody, since in the movie she and Daniel don't go underground like they did in the GN.

I admit some of the lack of action in the GN works much better than the action in the movie. I prefer Rorschach's confrontation with the kidnapper/murder in the book as opposed to the movie, it's less physically brutal, but much more psychological. They took a few little liberties with Rorschach that seemed to work much better in the GN. Though I agree the Black Freighter being cut really doesn't effect the movie one way or another.

Like you said though Spoony, this is a spring board for me. Having watched both "films" I plan on picking up the actual GN and giving it a read, or at least a browse, to see how much the panels actually moved and what the book actually looks like.

The word you where searching for, when you said commonalities or clichés; I belive that the best word is Trope, wich roughly means cliché, idiom or convention. check out tv ropes wiki for more info.

I liked the movie.

Then again I really didn't like the comic. It is great comic, but for me it was too heavy on dialog. Maybe I will grown in to it.

But the movie was good in its own right if you don't compare it to the comic. My friend who has not read the comic liked the movie and I did too. Ending bothered me more than the squid. Then again I am more of purist even if I am not big fan of it.

This movie is kind a like V for vendetta if you don't compare it to the comic it is good movie and those who has not read the comic can enjoy it.

First of all, the movie was beautiful. The CGI was more than I'd ever expected and in that sense it more than did Watchmen justice.

However, to answer your question about why the Comedian needed to be "put down" as it were, was because of the fact that he saw the alien that Ozymandias was creating.
The reason he goes to see his old enemy drunk and crying is because he's upset about the fact that someone could do something as horrible as manufacture a terror like the alien simply to kill so many people. He says it's all a joke because it's so absurd and terrifying to him.

The fact that they took the alien out really did pretty much smash the plot to pieces. Without the alien, there's no need for the Comedian to die, no need for Rorschach to have his Mask Killer theory, and really no reason for Ozymandias to have his cat, Bubastis.

That was the one thing that disappointed me about the film was the fact that they removed the key plot device and then did not replace it with something that made sense.
At the end, the fact that suddenly the world believes that it's under attack from and outside source that has destroyed New Yord is much scarier and causes all the countries to unite against a common worldly threat. The story, instead basically made it so that America's project got away from them and really now America's on the same ground as everyone else.
I felt like, rather than making it seem more common for all countries, like they were obviously trying to do, the movie made the story very American centered.

So there we go! The alien was very much necessary to the plot and really wouldn't have taken more than a few lines to justify and the one major disappointment I had with the movie was the fact that they did not include it.

As a person who hasn't read the comic and didn't know anything beside it being a "murder mystery", I really enjoyed the movie. People have said to read the comic before watching the movie, but I didn't. I still liked the movie. I didn't even mind the length even though there was a guy in front going "when is this movie over?"

I'm reading the graphic novel right now. I finished reading chapter 1 and think the dialogue is more clunky in the comic than the movie.

You
Are
Awesome
And I can't wait to see the movie, I just read the comic and I think it will rock!

Good Review. You showed both sides well, and you didn't criticize to much. I liked 300 though, and maybe I'll read the graphic novel. But I think the elimination of the squid was like drinking sour milk: its not very good. You had a point that anything could've destroyed it, but the squid should've been in it. Still, good job

First off, I would like to say, that your review was 10 times better and well more thought out than Linkara's was. I don't like any of his reviews. He seems to think shouting will make him seem more correct... oh well, that's just his style I guess.

However, I think both you and Linkara missed out on what I and a few other people I know too the new ending to be. It wasn't about the world uniting in a futile attempt to defeat Dr. Manhattan, it was about Dr.Manhattan PUNISHING the human race for being so close on the brink of self destruction. Ozzy even said (rough quote) "It would be John's punishment to man for trying to destroy each other"
and Either Nite Owl or Silke Specter said "But John wouldn't do that..."
Which is when we get the big reveal that Ozzy got John out of the way to set it up like he had done it anyway.
It was the world united in fear of another attack from Dr. Manhattan, realizing that the only way to protect themselves from total annihilation from Dr. Manhattan was through unity.

That's just what I got from the new ending, and I may be completely off base with that, but hey, what do I know.
Anyway, great review Spoony.

to keep it short here's my problem with the movie :

First the ending, it doesn't work as well as the original. Uniting the world against Dr. Manhattan may be similar in idea, but it makes less sense, I mean, realistically, how would the russians interpret such an event ? would they really accept the explanation that Americas trump card would turn on the entire world including America ? or would they interpret that as just a cover for a tyranical American governments first attack in a war for world domination ? And like you said, can the world really feel united by a common enemy they already know to be Invincible. And no, it did not have to be a squid from a sub-dimension, it could have been anything so long as it was a third threat, not associated with either side of the conflict.

The original ending made more sense to me. Veidt shocks the world into uniting under the fear of a completely unpredicted threat, aliens. He shocks the world into a new perspective, a new state of mind. Its hard for me to believe that transforming Dr. Manhattan, a familiar element, into a worldwide threat could have the same effect.

But I understand why they would have to do such a thing, seeing as how the alien veidt genetically engineered was originally designed by a comic book writer and artist (who believed they was designing a movie), the same writer that wrote the pirate comic that was cut from the movie.

I also did not like all the extra action. The original book was very cinematic, but in a classical way, very dialogue and character driven. The almost romanticized, slow-mo action kind of contradicted the atmosphere of the original book, that being of a sense of human realism. Remember, the only one of the characters with super powers was Dr. Manhattan. Had the action just bit shot with an emotionally cool documentarian style and in normal speed, it would have lent a greater sense of realism to those characters, but they can do whatever they want with the Sci-Fi elements IMHO.

I am of the camp that believes that the original book was fundamentally unfilmable, so much of the book's theme and meaning rested on character development, and so much of character development relied on the back stories. Its hard to abridge those and have the same effect. I had dreamed of seeing it in live action though, but I had imagined it as an HBO or showtime miniseries of some sort, that way you would not have to abridge ANY of it, and you could easily separate in into chapters. That's how I would have preferred to see it.

So...I'm also not feeling well but I saw the movie before I got sick. I liked it a lot. That being said, I have not read the comic at all. I had only seen previews and thought it looked cool, I didn't even know it was based on a comic at first. Anyway with neither high nor low expectations I went in with NO expectations, just wanting to see how this movie played out. I liked everything about the movie EXCEPT!!!... I just didn't feel seing the worst case of blue balls in history was necessary... although from your vid it seems as though it was in the comic and just following source material... the love story arch with Nightowl was completely pointless in the movie. It went absolutely nowhere and nearly an entire movies worth of time (felt like an hour and a half to me anyway)was devouted to the jealousy of comparing him to Manhatten... and the last complaint I had was the lack of explaination of Roarshach's mask and how it just moves like that... I had to go online and look it up.(thats just way too big of a book for me, I hate reading)