The Countdown: The Next Batman Villain PDF Print E-mail
Written by Chris Larios   
Tuesday, 26 August 2008 00:00
 

Ahoy-hoy friends, it's LordVonQuack (a.k.a Chris Larios-my real name is my alias?) and I bring you a new series that I plan to rarely do except in situation of pure unrestrained awesome. It's called The Countdown, it's really just a fancy was of saying a top ten list. See, I'm creative!

 

Now this version I do has an ulterior motive I'll admit, but I'm listing my top ten ideas for the villain in the next Batman movie in the Nolan series, and the actor/actress that I feel will be portray them. I offer a suggestion why I picked each, and I rank them towards the probability that they will be featured in the next film. Now before anyone leaps at my neck to feast upon my stupidity, now that I do not read the comics, so if anything I believe is wrong, don't kill me. If you do, you'll never know where the treasure is buried.

 

An thus, let's start The Countdown.

 

10. Black Mask as portrayed by Hugo Weaving

 

Disturbingly efficient, and violently brutal, Black Mask seems like the perfect fit for the Nolan movie franchise. He's dark, twisted, and creepy, which fits even Ra's Al-Ghul's portrayal, and obviously Scarecrow, Joker, and Two-Face reeked of a twisted horror feel. His whole gimmick is that he's ruthless and is skilled at torture and with our culture obsession with torture porn starting to fade, The Dark Knight sequel might be the last chance to throw that in. So why Hugo Weaving then?

 

Well I never read the comics, so I can't imagine how Black Mask actually spoke or acted, but the general feeling in my mind is that he's crude and violent. Weaving is most known for playing Agent Smith in the Matrix franchise, V from the V for Vendetta epic, and Elrond from the Lord of the Rings movies. Smith was a tad monotone and cruel, but it showed how Weaving can play the villain. V was the anti-hero/anti-villain depending on your outlook, but he expressed humility in that role. And Elrond was a jerk. Okay, maybe not so, but his role in The Lord of the Rings trilogy shows he can play a big picture. I believe that he can play some of the best villains around, and his portrayal of Black Mask would be creepy, disturbing, and leaving us hating the bastard unlike the rampant fan display the Joker gets now.

 

But with a good actor and the perfect setup, why would Black Mask be so low on this list? In truth it's because Black Mask could never sell a movie alone. He'd need someone to share the spotlight with. Whether it's with Catwoman in a villain versus villain role, or if he's a hired goon underneath one of the more dangerous blackguards of Gotham, he'd need help to ever become a box office smash. Nolan said once that he wanted to do the more unknown villains, and Black Mask fits his motive operandi perfectly, but with rumors of Riddler and Catwoman on the scene I have to wonder if that was all bullocks. Did I just say bullocks? Wow.

 

9. Ventriloquist & Scarface as portrayed by Michael Emerson

 

The greatest villain on television today, Benjamin Linus embodies what we hate in the villain. He's smarmy and cocky. He's untrustworthy and rude. He's psychological and scary. Benjamin Linus is evil, even if he fights for the good side from time to time.

 

What makes Emerson such a perfect villain is that he looks weak. He's small, skinny, and has little intimidation in his face-until you gaze upon his eyes however. His eyes are the penultimate of mind rape as Ben will make you believe whatever he wishes, and Emerson's acting makes you always question whether Ben is truly a bad guy or not. Thus, turning him into a Batman villain seems absolutely necessary.

 

So why the Ventriloquist? To be honest, the role suits Emerson, even if it's not the most well known or feared. As I said, Emerson has the look of a coward, and Wesker was a tad frail. However the evil psycho side of Scarface is easily something that Benjamin could do. I can actually see the scene now where Wesker's mouth is closed and his dummy is still talking, and Emerson is just giving the apex of "go fuck yourself" looks. Emerson is one of the best actors I've ever seen, and originally I pictured him as an amazing Riddler, which he could still do, but in the end I pitted him as the Ventriloquist.

 

Only problem here is that the Ventriloquist is well... as everyone's favorite Frenchman Benzaie would say... LAME! Well, at least against Batman villains. He has the psychotic problem that makes a Batman villain good, but he's never treated as the credible threat like Two-Face, Joker, or the more infamous members of the rouge gallery are. Thus, fitting him into a Batman movie will be difficult unless someone with more star power supports him. I can't grasp who except maybe Joker, but can there be another Joker?

 

8. Ra's Al-Ghul as portrayed by Liam Neeson

 

Rather low considering my undying love for the finest actor to ever come from Europe, but even I must admit the chances of Neeson reprising his role are slim. Not just because I'm curious to see if Neeson would accept (and if he didn't I wouldn't bother casting Al-Ghul), but it seems Nolan killed off our immortal in the origin story. Still, the aforementioned statement pops a hole in the question of "Is Ra's Al-Ghul dead?" We all know he's immortal, but it's through the Lazarus Pits which I believe these films are avoiding. So in that respect, Neeson is done for, but the living loophole was exploited in that we never saw the League of Assassins master die. In truth, the explosion might have severely maimed or injured him, and he needed some pools (this could be believable) to restore him.

 

Part of why Al-Ghul should return is because his intellect and his knowledge of Bruce's identity. We know Wayne can't risk the truth being revealed, so an entire movie could be based around someone threatening to unmask the bat. A dummy villain could be used to turn us away until we find out that Ra's Al-Ghul has returned, and he's pissed. Alternatively we have Ra's daughter Talia who's been a romantic foil for the Dark Knight. Of course we have two methods of performing this. The former would be that Ra's lives, and his daughter assists in the madness, and the latter being that Neeson did indeed perish (as he does in all of his movies) and his daughter is taking the helm. With her as the villain we could be treated to flashbacks, dreams, or "force ghosts" of Neeson telling his daughter what to do.

 

This is all farfetched, but if the series runs long enough they may have to get to him. Thus to keep Neeson interested, a teaser for sequel could occur. I'd be excited, but I'm also a Liam Neeson fanboy.

 

7. Bane portrayed as by Adeuale Akinnuoye-Agbaje

 

It took me five minutes to spell that name while staring at the correct spelling. It just messes with my mind! Anyway, Bane is perhaps one of Batman's greatest opponent's, being known as the only man to "break the bat". He's intelligent, strong, fast, and rather unique, but he seems to get shafted on his transitions. His movie debut was him essentially saying "Garg" and "Errg". He was The Hulk, but with even less speaking roles, plus he looked stupid as hell. Reading up on Bane I realized how baroque he actually is, and that was appealing, but to portray him is a challenge. Afterall, Bane is tall, muscular, and intelligent. I suppose you could feed lines to Vinnie or Nathan Jones (no relation) and they could be... passable, but I want a good actor to play Bane. So who the hell is Akinnuoye-Agbaje?

 

Well, he's not too well known if you don't watch television. He had a small role in the Bourne Identity and The Mummy Returns, but his more popular works were as Simon Adebisi on Oz, and more currently (I guess) as Mr. Eko on the hit drama LOST. In fact it's his role as Eko that makes me believe this role is perfect for him, although I guess Bane isn't black. Then again, Ra's Al-Ghul wasn't really white either I guess. Eko was characterized as a beast on the island physically, but he was spiritually one of the strongest. He was savage and brutal, and yet he built a church and baptized Aaron. Eko's role was perfect for the island, and I believe that his superb acting is what makes me want him as Bane; let's face it, Eko was intimidating.

 

Now I have Bane lower on the list mainly because well... I doubt he could carry a movie. I think people might not take a film seriously if Bane is the only adversary, and worse off I just can't see Nolan taking on a character that is intelligent, but tends to use brute force more. However I hold onto the hope that we'll see this casting call, because Bane and Adeuale are possible toppers to the Nolan franchise.

 

6. Mr. Freeze as portrayed by Terry O'Quinn

 

Most not recognize the name, but to any fan of the hit series LOST, this name is synonymous with greatness. Playing the great John Locke, O'Quinn provides arguably the best performance on the drama alongside Fox and Emerson, and on a show with such amazing talent, this is a feat to be admired. If one looks at his credited list, it's hard to find anything consistent, but Mr. O'Quinn has been around science fiction, and his role on the island proves his capability to perform a series hard-hitting dramatic role.

 

So why Mr. Freeze then? Well to be honest, the main reason is the look. He's got the shaven head, the cold complexion, and the right body frame. In addition I find that his attitude could easily mimic the sympathetic Freeze who battles to bring others to the same desolate frozen wasteland he lives into, as opposed to the campy singing crazy Freeze we were all so treated to in the Nostalgia Critic favorite. O'Quinn is also rather old (age 56) and personally I'd pick Freeze to be older in the movies. He's had time to sit and wallow in his sadness; his heart growing colder as each winter passes. Afterall, it's the suit the makes him dangerous, so why have a big strong Freeze? I'd rather one who can... well you know... act.

 

Mr. Freeze ranks relatively low on this list because Nolan has admitted that the gimmick characters like Freeze and Ivy are not on his agenda, so his probability of making it is less than desirable. In contrast however, anyone reading the comics knows that Mr. Freeze is one of the most gripping and detailed characters in the franchise, and in addition he twists the story. Unlike Joker and likely Riddler, Freeze isn't inherently evil. He's conflicted, and in almost all his incarnations he's come off as the hero in the end. Fighting a foe who isn't a true badguy is the right direction for the Nolan movies, and picking a lesser known actor to fulfill the role of Freeze might convince people to not think Batman on Ice when they see this.

 

5. Clayface as portrayed by Steve Buscemi

 

Depending on the incarnation, Clayface can range from homicidal maniac, to a painful unlucky soul cursed by fate. Strangely enough, Buscemi could fill any of these roles, as the man is acting gold. Personally I feel Matt Hagen's Clayface to be the most appropriate, but that's mostly because I've only watched Batman: The Animated Series. I suppose that he's the most familiar to those who watched the show, but never read the comics.

 

Buscemi's main claim to fame as his role is Reservoir Dogs where he played the awkwardly titled Mr. Pink. He's now known for playing the villains or the sneaky evil characters. Chances are that if Aladdin were filmed today, he'd be Iago, the creepy parrot. While psychologically Buscemi is feared, physically he's nothing to scoff at, but that's why Clayface works so well with him. The clay makes him scary, but the voice... oh my that voice is terrifying. I would never stop having nightmares about that villain. Imagine it if you will, the climax of the movie, and Clayface is on his last legs. He rises up-a tidal wave of dark earth dwarfing the Batman as he towers over the ground. His face scowled and vile as he screams for Batman to come at him. That... would be great. It would be like Sandman, if Sandman hadn't sucked.

 

As for the possibility of seeing Clayface, I bet it's not very likely. Though I've never heard Nolan say no, I can't see Clayface making the cut for the next film, though he deserves it. Clayface is a scary villain, but he requires the mystical side of Batman to exist. One could argue that his body is a chemical mutation, like Joker or Two-Face, but look at Nolan's representation of those two. Joker just wears make up, and Two-Face was scarred by fire. Magical shape-shifting clay might be a tad over the top in this version of the Batman world.

 

4. Catwoman as portrayed by Rachel Weisz

 

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of Catwoman. Among Batman's rogue's gallery she's overshadowed by far greater characters. However there is one up that I believe she has over the others: a vagina. No one can kid themselves; a superhero movie without a love interest will never be as successful. It's a Hollywood cliché, but the truth is that Batman needs someone to tease him. Now they can get anyone to do that. They can invent a new role just like last time, but rumors circulate Catwoman's return to the big screen.

 

Now the way to explain her past should likely avoid the prostitute angle or all I'm going to be able to think about is Sin City Jessica Alba, and that scene just feels too XXX. There was no nudity, but still. Oh right, my article! Rachel Weisz is a very attractive woman and closer to Bale's age than some of the actresses I picked (Summer Glau from Firefly and Sarah Connor: Chronicles fame who could pose as a 16 year old if she wanted) or a bit more talented in serious roles (I really considered Rosario Dawson here). I think that Weisz has the right look for Selena, and with the right attire, I think an older (not to detract from her beauty because she is still absolutely stunning) Catwoman is appreciated her. Though I could be wrong and the movie moguls might go with a woman still in her twenties. If they do I would recommend Summer Glau again for a reason that honestly, I can't explain. That girl is just bewitching, though if she fits the role... who knows. Still she's already a sci-fi/comic book staple heroine, so her coming in isn't crazy.

 

Now I want to address the rumors of Cher playing Catwoman. There is no possible way that Catwoman will be played by Cher, but if this is true, I will officially declare Nolan the worst director if that bitch doesn't pull out an amazing role. Yes, even more so than Joel and Uwe. Those guys just made crap movies. It takes a director of infamous talent free direction to take a great movie and make it stupid. I find this rumor too unbelievable though. Prior to this I've heard Riddler confirmed, and in another light I heard the Joker confirmed. Now Catwoman is confirmed, and a 62 year old actress is to portray her? What possible romantic angle would you attempt to get out of Batman when Cher is almost twice Bale's age? No, I refuse to believe this rumor is true. M from the James Bond movies would be a better pick. At least she's got some curves to her.

 

But in all likelihood I see Selena making the next movie, or if not some incarnation afterwards. Bruce needs a love interest, and that should be Catwoman. If they don't make her so overly depressing, then maybe she can come off likable. I really hope she does because she's gotten a bad rap. Although I don't like her much, I respect her, so a nice characterization of her could breathe life back into a spirit butchered by Halle "Death to Comics" Berry.

 

3. Two-Face as portrayed by Aaron Eckhart

 

I must admit, I loved this role, and Two-Face the character easily ranks on my top three villains of all time. I found Tommy Lee Jones to be a perfect fit for the character, but his performance just awful. Eckhart's role was excellent, and showed a true passion to embody the scarred District Attorney. However (and forgive me for Dark Knight Spoilers, but really if you haven't seen the movie yet, what are you waiting for) his death in the movie seems to lend credence to the idea that the character is gone.

 

Of course there were three clues to the contrary. Dent's coin for him landed face-up, his fall was discredited by Maroni earlier as "[not high enough to kill a man]", and no coffin was present. In a tradeoff, Dent could be at Arkham, alive and well, but hidden so no one knows the truth. The next movie could be another team up with a villain freeing Two-Face to submit Gotham into anarchy once again as they realize their fallen hero has become their most hated scum. Now I understand the entire "His face is evidence that he's not normal, and thus he would not hold the same survival theory of Maroni, but I don't enjoy that logic. His painful condition didn't keep him from going hunting around Gotham, so I'm banking on that theory falling through.

 

So the chances of Dent returning are relatively high, but there are a few hurdles to get through. He's not as cut and dry as the other main villains, but that doesn't negate his possible existence. I get the feeling that in the future we'll see Dent once again, and when he does I pray that Eckhart reprises his role. If he doesn't, the only other man I want to see as Two-Face is Ray Liotta, but that's a different discussion.

 

2. The Riddler as portrayed by Kelsey Grammar

 

Okay, stop! Don't leave yet, I promise to explain! To steal from the great Patton Oswalt, I'm going to take you to Mount Doom and then right back to the Shire, Frodo. Okay, Kelsey Grammar is famous for his role as Fraiser on the series Cheers, and then the self-titled spin-off Fraiser. He's known for his comedy roles, such as the ever iconic Sideshow Bob from Simpsons fame, but Grammar can be serious, and Ledger's performance taught me to take a role never at face value. Except Cher. That's still just stupid.

 

The last rendition of Riddler we've been treated to was Carrey's "performance" in Batman Forever. I mock his role because it was just Carrey being Carrey, with the logical face of the Riddler being tossed aside in favor of "How gay can we make this character?" Turns out very gay, as Carrey's Riddler was stupid. I like Jim, I really do, but Riddler isn't so zany, and his performance just made no sense. Thus, Grammar seems like the perfect replacement. Where Carrey would be silly and erratic Grammar would be calm and collected. Intelligently he would lay out the traps for the Dark Knight, each riddle insulting the detective's intelligence. Ubiquitous, the Riddler is there to mock, but never be foiled until after our hero has finally undone the greatest riddle of all.

 

The Riddler is a lock for one of the new movies, and if not the next, we'll see him in the following. A multitude of actors could play him, but to keep him from feeling like a cheap Joker knock-off, this Riddler can't be over the top. He should be sophisticated, refined, and has a massive attention to detail. The originally Riddler was obsessive compulsive after all. So when I said Fraiser should be the new Riddler, I wasn't crazy. Grammar played Beast in X-3, and even if you disliked the film you can't knock the acting, or at least the main acting. Grammar, if he becomes serious, can be excellent. I truly believe a Kelsey Grammar Riddler could be the surprise cast call of the decade. But that may just be me patting myself on the back for thinking of it.

 

1. The Joker as portrayed by Daniel Day-Lewis

 

Alright, shut the fuck up right now. Anyone who says "You can't recast Joker" is just being ridiculous. What are the two main reasons to not recast Joker?

 

  1. Because his performance was so amazing.
  2. Because Ledger is dead.

 

Well for the former, I must remind everyone that on the initial casting call for The Joker people were outraged. I knew plenty of people who thought that Heath Ledger was doomed to be a pale comparison to Jack Nicholson's role, but those critics were promptly told to "shut the fuck up" on July 18th. To claim that no one can surpass Ledger's performance is both arrogant and disrespectful. Ledger was a fine actor, and his final role is nothing short of amazing, but Ledger was not the greatest, and to call him that is an insult to both him and the other greats of the cinema world. Other people could take the role, and run with it.

 

As for Ledger being dead, I find that to be a poor substitute to kill of a character that didn't die in the movie, is necessary to live for the next movie, and is the main villain of the entire franchise this film is based off of. If Joker had died as well, I might have said "Yeah, let's just let the guy rest", but he didn't, and he really should be in the next movie. I respect Ledger, but what does cancelling the character do for the movie? It restricts its ability to transcend a simple superhero cliché, and will transform the film from a work of art to a lackluster effect that remains a shell of a far superior film. To cancel its star character for the reason of the actor's death is troubling, and its tough shoes for the replacement to fill, but why would any actor who truly loved his role be angry that someone was recast in it when he only embodied it once, albeit to critical acclaim? Yes, if Hank Azaria died I would just cancel Simpsons, but this is different, and while Ledger's death is a tragedy, it should not restrict a theater's ability to make art.

 

So yeah, we can recast the Joker, and you know who would rock as the Joker? Daniel Day-Lewis. I know the stories about Ledger's preparation for the film. I know about the month in the hotel room reading comics and perfecting his mannerisms, but Day-Lewis is also a method actor, and perhaps one of the best alive. Day-Lewis could embody the Joker with flying colors, and the world would welcome it. However, this will likely never happen.

 

And it's not even because of the Ledger death scenario, but rather that we'd need Day-Lewis, and that gay picks his parts very methodically. Four movies in ten years, but the guy won the Academy Award for best actor. To get him as Joker, I doubt would ever occur, but that might be the best casting call ever. I loved Ledger, and I loved Nicholson. I'd love Day-Lewis if they gave me the chance.

 

So there's my top ten... er... my Countdown of the Top Ten Villains for the Next Batman Movie. I hope you enjoyed, and you have an opinion, voice it. Obviously I'm no movie expert, and if have an alternative idea, deliver it unto me, and I shalt smoteth it! Wow, that made no sense. And on that note, I leave you to type angry replies of gratitude and praise. Right? Right!?

 

Peace.

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written by Ghostmayhem , August 26, 2008
I agree with you on the Joker and Two-Face, but I think that I'd rather see Harley Quinn in the third film than see the Joker At All. Though, Day-Lewis isn't a bad idea for an actor...
Or, they could just end the Nolan series now, get a new Director, and start the Batman series anew, which would mean it would be much less Controversial to re-cast Joker...
But, seeing as how Dark Knight and Batman begins were such HUGE hits, there'll be another Nolan movie. So, my vote is for Harleen Quinzel, AKA Harley Quinn.
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written by Prodigs , August 26, 2008
Nice to see someone else hasn't completely condemned Mr. Freeze. I'm sure it's thanks to the Governator, but when I listed Mr. Freeze as my top villian for the next Batman movie, people seemed more cheesed off with the fact it was Mr. Freeze as no. 1 as opposed to the fact I thought he should be played by Samuel L. Jackson.
Also so glad to see someone has embraced the possibility of another Joker! Everywhere I look it's disgraceful this and Harlequin that, no one is open to the possibility of the Joker being portrayed by a new actor, as if it's now the 12th commandment: "Thou shall not portray The Joker in the third new Batman movie, cause Heath Ledger kiled himselff aaandd so would be dissagreeaceful (I can't spell soz) so shut up! NOOB!Lolololll hahaha". I hope Ledger wins an oscar for best supporting actor (halarious how many people are rooting for 'best actor', as much as he stole the film, he still wasn't the one getting top biling), and I hope his actual last role, the Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassuss, is sucessful too, but the Joker is such a staple of the Batman series that it's not Ledger's new incarnation that is being presented in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, but the classic version. The logic is there, and most ignore it. As for Daniel Day Lewis, I'm afraid the only role I've seen of his that I remember was John Proctor in the Crucible, which was absolutely fantastic, but not much of a Joker-esque role.
My only complaints about your list is no Penguin...I love the Penguin, and honestly I don't like the Riddler that much, I never found him that deep a character, but it's not like I don't see any reasoning in him being there.
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written by estefan , August 26, 2008
Um...no mention of Harley Quinn? I think she should definitely appear in the next film, but she's my favourite Batman villain, so I'm possibly biased. I do think she could fit into Nolan's world.

In regards to the Joker, I guess you can re-cast him, but I don't think Daniel Day-Lewis is a good choice. That man takes himself much too seriously and can't seem to have fun in a part. One of the things that Ledger and Nicholson and Hamill enjoyed so much about playing the Joker was the sheer fun of it. Day-Lewis is too serious to be able to play the part. Sorry.

As for Ra's ah Ghul, I don't want to see him back. No offense to Liam Neeson, but he's a dull villain in any medium and really dragged Batman Begins down, in my opinion.

Bane, Mr Freeze, Clayface and Scarface wouldn't work in Nolan's world, I'm afraid. Bane is powered by toxin, Mr Freeze (despite being a character the audience can feel sorry for) is a man in a refrigerator, Clayface like you said is magical and Scarface isn't scary. Because he's merely a puppet, Batman can easily put him in a wood chipper without a problem.

I would like Two-Face to come back and Kelsey Grammar is not a bad choice for The Riddler. But, if they did do the Riddler, I hope they show Bruce having trouble with solving the riddles. Something that bothers me about the Riddler storylines in Batman Forever and in the animated series is that Bruce takes about three seconds to figure out the Riddle. He doesn't even think about it, which I find really ridiculous.

And as for Catwoman, she's a good choice for a love interest, if they make her similar to the animated series. She's a thief, but she has worthy causes for doing so and she doesn't really try to kill anybody in the process, unlike the Joker or Scarecrow.

And I actually think Poison Ivy can work in Nolan's world. In today's green-obsessed world, there are actually plenty of people very similar to Pamela Isley. Remember those antics with the dolphins that that actress from "Heroes" got involved in? The fact that Gotham is practically plant-less definitely gives her a motive.

Oh and future reference, it's spelled "Nolan", not "Noland."
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why Harley Quinn?
written by kevgeta , August 26, 2008
dude why have her in the next movie if the jokers not going to be in it. it does make any sence

and by the way on digg .com it had a story about how two face was dead by nolan himself

the villan I want to see is fire fly
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I'm going with
written by Movie-Brat , August 26, 2008
Either The Riddler or Black Mask. They should just kill off The Joker, nobody can top Heath Ledger and isn't Two-Face dead?
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written by LordVonQuack , August 27, 2008
Well let me address a few concerns here...

I was originally going to have an honorable mentioned listed that would have included Penguin, Harley Quinn, and a few others. For Penguin I just don't find him threatening enough in any medium. Burton's Penguin was a far cry from the character, and I just don't feel as if he'll fit well into the Nolan landscape. He's too... normal is some strange pseudo way.

As for Harley, I'm surprised there's such a backlash over what's really a moot point. You can't have Harley without the Joker. That's just silly. Harley's an interesting character, but all of her entertainment value is derived from her interaction with the Joker. In the right setting she could be fun, but if she takes the main villain mantle, what direction does the movie go in? It would just be The Dark Knight II, but less interesting with only more boobs to counter act Joker and Two-Face being gone. It's not like Harley's a completely different character than her idol.

And if they bring back Joker, the movie doesn't change. It's now a sequel using Harley as the second villain, and leaves no room for a change in pace. With an entire rogue's gallery to work with, why restrict themselves to the same gimmick? I suggested the Joker to return on the assumption he isn't working along. He carries the brunt of the work, but a second villain like Catwoman or Bane or Riddler or Freeze exists to change the flow of the film. Harley could exist, but I'd rather her part be bit because throwing her around too much feels like a direct sequel over an evolution in the story.

As for the men who can't exist:

Bane is powered by toxin, Mr Freeze (despite being a character the audience can feel sorry for) is a man in a refrigerator, Clayface like you said is magical and Scarface isn't scary. Because he's merely a puppet, Batman can easily put him in a wood chipper without a problem.


Bane can easily be explained as requiring a massive amount of steriods to keep himself strong. Freeze can have a problem with the cold that even a suit can't completely fix. Really the sub-zero suit is not all that ridiculous, and his ice gun could be replaced with more of a venom that when shot into a person sends them into a deadly shock that lowers their body temperature severely. If the suit is really that big of a problem, then hell maybe he just comes out during winter or something. As for Ventriloquist, I think that's a poor representation. Isn't Scarecrow just some guy with a bag over his head? Not too scary. And Joker just has some scars. That's gross, but how scary is that really? It's the mindset; the psycho terror of these men's miens as they enact hell upon the fair city of Gotham.

Dolls have always had the urban myth of being scary as we fear the dead living. Make a creepy doll with a tattered body and have it speaking while it's owner appears to be dead or unconscious is the way and you've created something terrifying. It's all in the way the prop designers make the character, and the way Emerson would embody his voice. Ventriloquist isn't the most intimidating guy, but that's why I say he could't take this movie alone. He'd need help, but he'd make a great secondary character. Shows that even the mob leaders that aren't facially scarred are being headed by the freaks now.

And yeah, Clayface would require more explanationt than I can give. Still, his character is one of Batman's greatest foes for a multitude of reasons. I'd love to see him work.

nobody can top Heath Ledger


Most people didn't think he would be able to match Nicholson's performance either. It's not about topping Ledger, it's about creating a memorable performance. No one has to "top" anyone.
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written by Punky , August 27, 2008
OMG Quack u suck!! I hate your guts so much... nah I wuv u It was awsome cant wait for your next countdown
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written by AndThatsWhyMommyCriesAtNight , August 27, 2008
You made many good suggestions. I pretty much agree with everything you said. Lewis as Joker would be nice, but doubt he'd do it. I'm surprised no one ever suggests Mark Hamill. He's arguably the best Joker voice and laugh so why is it considered a stretch to just slap some clown make-up and purple suit on the guy?

Someone besides me finally thinks Clayface needs a role! Matt Hagan/Clayface isn't that hard to believe. Actor gets into a tragic accident that leaves his face and body horribly scarred. Mob introduces him to a new product that can allow him to literally mold his face back to normal. The ''catch'' he has to do jobs for organized crime as payment. Matt doesn't stop to consider side-effects and becomes highly addicted to the product. Tries to break in to steal it, gets caught, and has an entire pot of the boiling stuff poured down his throat. Voila!
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written by ZGDK , August 27, 2008
The problem with Ra's al Ghul, is that in order to do an epic, grounbreaking Ra's al Ghul story it's GOING to need to be a globetrotting odyssesy WITH the Lazarus Pits. Batman Begins was a great set up, but it feels that there's so much more you can do with the character.
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written by sanjithecook , August 27, 2008
I hate when people say 'nobody can top Heath Ledger' what a bunch of sheep. I bet most of them at one point said 'nobody can top Jack'

Mark Hamill is amazing as the voice and laugh but i've never seen him play a pyscho in a film, besides he must be like 50 or something.
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But the thing is
written by Movie-Brat , August 27, 2008
Heath exceeded everyone's expectations. He was the best Joker, even better than Hamill and Nicholson.

And besides, killing off The Joker would be out of respect for the actor and besides, would Nolan be that stupid recast The Joker? Look at what happened with the casting of Harvey Dent in the Schumacher films? You want that to be repeated?
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Another thing
written by Movie-Brat , August 27, 2008
Clayface wouldn't fit Nolan's vision. And he already confirmed that he has no plans for Catwoman and The Penguin. So they're out of the question.
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written by vonFiedler , August 27, 2008
Catwoman as portrayed by Rachel Weisz

You just made my day. And got my vote.
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written by sanjithecook , August 27, 2008
And besides, killing off The Joker would be out of respect for the actor and besides, would Nolan be that stupid recast The Joker? Look at what happened with the casting of Harvey Dent in the Schumacher films? You want that to be repeated?


Explain how it shows disrespect to the actor to recast him? So killing off his intepretation of the joker would be sign of respect??? okay say they do that... then what? Maybe then they should stop making batman comics with the joker in it as other interpretations of the character would be disrepectful. Plus i really doubt Heath Ledger would be like 'this character is mine i own it and nobody should ever have a chance of doing their own intepretation of the character.

Killing off the joker would be:
1)unfaithful to the comics
2)unfaithful to the dark knight as the Heath Ledger as the Joker even says 'i think we shall be doing this forever' which is paying respects to the batman and joker relationship of the comics.
3)be making the same mistake as the orginal batman movie

What do you mean about two-face in forever? alot of people said we should never recast the joker after Jack nicholson's perormance of the Joker and if they didnt recast him we would've never have gotten Heath Ledger's performance smilies/angry.gif

Sorry to come across angry, i'm just tired of people saying kill him off! smilies/sad.gif
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And one more thing
written by Movie-Brat , August 27, 2008
No offense guys but please don't give WB ideas especially with Catwoman. Do you guys really, really want another Spider-Man 3?
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written by Movie-Brat , August 27, 2008
Sorry to come across angry, i'm just tired of people saying kill him off!


Well, Heath's interpentation is too good to recast. The Joker can stay in the comics but the thing is, whoever plays The Joker in the next movie, even if the next guy does a good job, he's not going to top Heath Ledger and that would turn off the audience who loved what Ledger did. The character has to die, it'll turn off people if The Joker gets a new actor.
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written by sanjithecook , August 28, 2008
Well, Heath's interpentation is too good to recast. The Joker can stay in the comics but the thing is, whoever plays The Joker in the next movie, even if the next guy does a good job, he's not going to top Heath Ledger and that would turn off the audience who loved what Ledger did. The character has to die, it'll turn off people if The Joker gets a new actor.


I understand your passion but killing him off would be the biggest mistake to the series. Why do they have to kill off my favourite villian again? can't they just leave him in arkham asylum?

If they kill him off again i will stop watching the series.

I think your greatly underestimating the character Joker, he's had over 70 years of intepretations in the comics. Infact, you're going to hate me for saying this... although i thought Heath Ledger's performance was amazing i still think here's room for improvement on his joker. But this is just me, i would preferred him acting more like he did in the torture scene in instead of constantly talking with a deep voice and a serious face.


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Responses
written by LordVonQuack , August 28, 2008
@ Punky - No, you suck! Nah I kid! You're my little latin fireball! SAUCY!

@ MommyCriesAtNight - I think Hamill might be far too comfortable doing voice work to venture back into cinema. Hamill wouldn't be bad at all, but I just can't see him making the transition, and there's a ton of other people who would jump at the job before they got to him.

@ ZGDK - Depends on how magical this world is going to be. It's true that some hot springs have medicinal properties, but one that brings people back to life shoves Batman in the direction that Nolan has so far been avoiding: the fantasy side.

@ sanjithecook - Agreed. Most people (myself included) said nobody could top Nicholson. And I must stress that no one needs to "top" Ledger either, they just need a memorable performance.

@ VonFiedler - Thank you

@ Movie-Brat - I have absolutely no idea what your comparison to the Two-Face role in Batman Forever was about, but Ledger's performance is not infalliable. To claim people won't watch a recast Joker is silly unless the person who portrays him is terrible. Again, so many people whined when we heard Nicholson wasn't reprising his role as the Joker. Now to say Ledger is better than Nicholson is not a valid statement. Though the played the same person, their portrayals were radically different.

It's not about playing the best Joker, it's just about fufilling the role. The next person, and I repeat this, the next person DOES NOT need to "surpass" Ledger's performance. There's no contest to see who can play the Clown Prince of Tragedy the best, and people need to stop looking at it as such.

And as for Catwoman, we only hate her because Halle Berry played a garbage version of her. A revival of her character could easily lift our opinions of her, and again the movie needs a love interest, and Catwoman is one. If Nolan did indeed say no Catwoman, then I also believe Nolan said he wouldn't do anyone that's been portrayed in movie format before. That would cut my list down to Ventriloquist & Black Mask.

That'll sell tickets.
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Daniel-Day Lewis as The Joker
written by Oatmeal , August 28, 2008
Well, at first I thought about Paul Bettany, but that will probably never happen. If anyone can replace Ledger, it's D-Day. smilies/wink.gif
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written by Movie-Brat , August 28, 2008
I have absolutely no idea what your comparison to the Two-Face role in Batman Forever was about, but Ledger's performance is not infalliable. To claim people won't watch a recast Joker is silly unless the person who portrays him is terrible. Again, so many people whined when we heard Nicholson wasn't reprising his role as the Joker. Now to say Ledger is better than Nicholson is not a valid statement. Though the played the same person, their portrayals were radically different.


The comparison is that it might not be a good idea to recast a character, remember, Billy Dee Williams played Harvey Dent and was replaced by Tommy Lee Jones. But you know what? Forget about that comparison. But overall, it's all up to Nolan, Goyer and the WB if they want to recast The Joker. If they won't recast well I'll probably expect alot of whiners here (No offense).

And as for Catwoman being a love interest, would Nolan want Batman to have romance in the next film? Maybe not. Yes, there were love interests in The Dark Knight but it ended in tragedy, that's not exactly romantic.
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written by LordVonQuack , August 28, 2008
I really don't need them to recast Joker, but to write him off leaves a rather awkward hole in the film franchise. I'd love for Joker to return, and unless we're going to Chef route and just piecing together old Heath Ledger lines we'll need someone new.

And as for Catwoman being a love interest, would Nolan want Batman to have romance in the next film? Maybe not. Yes, there were love interests in The Dark Knight but it ended in tragedy, that's not exactly romantic.


Actually, it's quite romantic. I recall Romeo & Juliet ending quite unforunately, but it's one of the best love stories. Tragedy adds the greatest dimension to a love story, and we saw how her death affected the others, especially Batman. A new skirt for the Nolan franchise could easily be worked in, and it feeds off the human side of Wayne. Afterall, everyone is vulnerable at their heart. Even Batman.
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written by sanjithecook , August 28, 2008
The comparison is that it might not be a good idea to recast a character, remember, Billy Dee Williams played Harvey Dent and was replaced by Tommy Lee Jones. But you know what? Forget about that comparison. But overall, it's all up to Nolan, Goyer and the WB if they want to recast The Joker. If they won't recast well I'll probably expect alot of whiners here (No offense).


No offense, but you don't listen! smilies/angry.gif I've said more than once that if they took your advice on never recasting characters after they left well-loved performances then you would've never gotten The Dark Knight joker that you love. So try to be open-minded, and think outside of the box.

And yes i take offense to your 'whiners' comment, that's like me saying 'your a dickhole... no offense' i'm entitled to give my opinion, if it collides with yours then so be it. smilies/grin.gif

I think the REAL whiners will be the people who don't want a recast as there are surely more of them than there are of me. But that doesn't make my opinion any less invalid because it is in the minority.


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written by sanjithecook , August 28, 2008
@ sanjithecook - Agreed. Most people (myself included) said nobody could top Nicholson. And I must stress that no one needs to "top" Ledger either, they just need a memorable performance.


Glad i'm not totally alone on this issue smilies/grin.gif

Yes, that's absolutely right, nobody needs to top anybody. Jacks Joker had more of the prankster vibe while Heath had a more of a serious vibe. I think there is a tremendous opportunity to do something very memorable and that is done by playing with the balance of the prankster vibe and serious vibe and do a Joker has a real mix of both. But that's just me.

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written by MrDetective , August 28, 2008
Hugo Weaving as Black Mask. Oh my lord. Thats make so much sense, my head is about to implode. Same with Daniel Day-Lewis as the joker, but isn't he much older than Ledger? Psh, nevermind, continuity went out the window when Dawes was recast.

I really wish they let Two-Face live for the third movie. He's one of the best batman villains and there's still a whole lot you can do with that character that hasn`t been done in any of the movies. Then again, it might be much more interesting to see a character that hasn't gotten onto the big screen. Like the Ventriloquist or Black Mask.

As for Harley Quinn, if she is in the third film, Joker will need to be recast. You can't even have her story origin without Joker.
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written by Movie-Brat , August 28, 2008
But here's the thing, The Joker can get a recast but not in Nolan's continuity. I mean, save the recast for the next restart.
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written by johnlocke108 , August 28, 2008
I'm one of those people who think that the Joker shouldn't be recast, but that's because I hate recasting to begin with. I didn't hate Holmes being replaced, but that's because I saw her as the weak link in Begins (and yet it still seemed odd). However, Ledger gave a great performance and though a replacement's performance could be just as great it would feel different, like someone had swapped places with the Joker that we saw in The Dark Knight. (I'm not saying Ledger can't be topped, though I do think Ledger gave a grand performance.)

Also my thoughts only apply to the Nolan series, since they have greater continuity. If they can’t make a good third film without the Joker, than I’d agree with a decision to recast, but if they could make it with one of Batman’s other villains than they might as well take option B.

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written by sanjithecook , August 29, 2008
smilies/sad.gif But the problem is that do you guys really think that the 'Nolan series' is going to end when he leaves the series?

Of course not, look how much money WB have made from the dark knight, after Nolan leaves they'll get someone to copy his style and carry on the story. I could see them continuing it until we have another Batman and robin... I think after Nolan leaves the series but they are continuing the 'Nolan series' then they should recast the Joker later on.

I'm not desperate for the Joker to be back in the third film, I just don't want them to kill him off. If you kill him off without recasting then your going to have to kill him 'offscreen' and that would be despectful treatment to Heath Ledger's intepretation.

The way i see it, leave the Joker in arkham asylum for a good few films then when the years have gone by and they got someone to replace Nolan to carry on Nolan's series then they should recast the Joker.
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written by Kuraime , August 30, 2008
written by Movie-Brat, August 28, 2008
But here's the thing, The Joker can get a recast but not in Nolan's continuity. I mean, save the recast for the next restart.

I agree, its too soon for a recast. Especially on the Joker, since Ledger is dead and can't reprise his role. Bringing a new Joker, when everyone is still in awe of the previous one is too soon. I agree with LordVonQuack, that the Joker must be brought back at some point, since he is ultimately the archvillain in the whole Batman series. But I don't really like that the same baddie would be in two consecutive movies. In my opinion, the Joker should be reportraited later on, maybe little bit earlier than Jack Nicholson -> Heath Ledger came to be. But leave it be for now, give it time.

I remember reading rumors that Johnny Depp would be taking on the role of the Riddler. If true, this would really save my day as I have very high hopes for the next movie. So high infact that im sure to be disappointed. I should keep my expectations low, just so I can be positively surprised, but the idea of a sequal is to top the previous one (granted that doesn't happen very often, but Nolan seems to have the hang of it).

As for the number of villains per movie, I think that depending on the charisma of the main villain, a maximum of 3 villains should be present. If the main villain is as charismatic as the Joker (both Nicholson and Ledger were very charismatic), then one baddie can be enough. Two-face was given a rather small role in the Dark Knight, but it all evened out since the Joker was really the grand star of the show.

Now I dont know all the baddies in Batman, because I havent read the comics, but I feel that Mr. Freeze should make an appearance in Nolan's series, partly because I feel that Batman and Robin didn't really give us the best picture of the character. I don't know if Riddler and mr. Freeze would make such a good pair though.

Anyway, nice article.

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written by greybob , September 01, 2008
It seems to me that Nolan has really boxed himself into a corner by limiting the amount of content he'll allow in his films based solely on the fact that he thinks that they aren't realistic enough for his vision of the Batman universe. I mean, come on! Look at the some of the stuff he does allow, and it just doesn't make any sense! A guy running around in a bat costume, yelling like a heavy-metal rockstar, and driving a frickin' ARMORED TANK down the city streets. Then we've got a villian who refuses to have burn wounds treated, and then runs around all over the place with very little signs of physical pain, when in reality he should be in excruciating, crippling pain. It doen't matter that Dent was SPOILER killed at the end of Dark Knight SANS SPOILER because if Nolan's vision was truly realistic, he'd be dead in a couple of days because of infections, anyways. Seriously, Nolan should get his head out of his ass and give us Clayface, give us Mr. Freeze, give us the Lazurus Pits, and please please please give us the crazy sci-fi chemical concoctions, because those are part of what make Batman, Batman!
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written by AgentKen , September 01, 2008
I don't have some sort of deep seeded debate, but Aaron Eckhart as Two-Face has been my pick since I saw his performance, and I've been using those arguments among my friends. They think I'm desperate, but I say not as desperate as the Spider-Man series.

Rachel Weisz considers herself too big of an actress to take up Catwoman, and while she would be very good in the part, I'd say that's probably a "no". The last rumors I heard were Angelina Jolie, and god knows if anyone can kill a character, it's her.

Clayface was always awesome in the cartoon, but you're right, Nolan is a bit too serious for something like that. Granted, Ledger turned the Joker to a bit of a comedian killer (bad phrasing but it's what a lot of people are used to), so someone could definitely do that to Clayface.

Black Mask with Hugo Weaving is absolutely brilliant, but casual fans probably have no idea who the hell that is.
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