Anime Abandon - Neon Genesis Evangelion: Death and Rebirth

(125 votes, average 4.18 out of 5)
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Comments (164)
  • Kano
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    Watching Evangelion dubbed should be punishable by law.
  • Tactlesscat
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    Oh shit lock my ass up then, cause I didn't know about internet pirating until after I watched it. Thanks subtitle nazi.
  • ohe
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    Wow. Now that's tactless.
  • Amykins
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    What's tactless? The dub is bad, but then, this was before anime was a huge thing. And besides, this recap and subsequent ending is SUPPOSED to be bad...to a degree. It's the result of a pissed off, mentally questionable creator throwing his intentionally batshit insane film script to shut his fans up who were begging for a better end to Evangelion.
  • PlayMp1
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    From now on, I'm going to refer to Folding Ideas' interpretation of the endings. Basically, one (the original) is the intended ending, reflecting on personal development, while the other (EoE) is exactly what the fans wanted, except gone horribly right. It's symbolized by the masturbation scene at the beginning, even.
  • wage124
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    because shinji masturbates to completion over asuka's comatose body?
  • ladydiskette
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    Is the english dub really that bad?
  • ohe
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    It's kind of worse than bad because it misses its mark so severely on what the characters are supposed to emote. It's comparable to reshooting Citizen K- no, something more mundane. It's comparable to reshooting, um... The Usual Suspects with the actors replaced by... Keanu Reeves. Whole meanings of entire scenes become impossible to even figure out.
  • jjramsey
    I found the dub to be just fine.
  • Furrama
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    It starts off pretty bad, but it gets better. It was really pretty good for the time it was dubbed. But it doesn't hold up to today's standards.

    Though I never liked Shinji's voice. It's too... old sounding. The actor is okay, it just doesn't fit.

    I like the history surrounding the series, I love the design work, I appreciate the impact the series had on other anime's narratives, but I don't really... like the series for the most part. I really don't agree with the conclusions it comes up with, or at least how it gets there. It's an oddly fascinating train wreck that begs to be dissected. I both love and hate it. It's... sublime. It's probably why many sane people obsess over it.

    ( I've had depression before, so I understand Shinji. I understand just... not really caring anymore, prioritizing the wrong things, circling the drain, blah blah. The way the character is used is brilliant in that regard but... it's still not quite handled right. Hard to explain if you've never had depression.)
  • jjramsey
    It seems that the mid-to-late 90s seems to be the transition period from the era when dubs were usually kinda bad to when they became reasonably good. Around that time, you get a mix of clunker dubs, like the one for Utena, and more solid dubs, like Trigun's. (Cowboy Bebop, of course, is a high watermark of dubs.) Personally, I'd rate the NGE dub as well above Utena's, but YMMV.

    I actually like NGE overall, even given its flaws. Then again, by the time I started watching it, the backlash against the pretentiousness, the problems with the animation budget, etc., had already happened, so my expectations were low, and I ended up pleasantly surprised. _End of Eva_, though, I found to be really, really dismal. Not too surprisingly, I find the differences between the Rebuild movies and the original NGE to be features, not bugs.
  • cannedfury
    If anything, the budget was the most impressive part. I'm not sure it could even be called splurging when the series had a sub-DBZ budget. DBZ was $80 grand while Eva was freaking $62K in an age when a Sunrise mecha show took $300 thousand. By all means Eva should have moved like early '80s Robotech.

    When you take that into account, the elevator scene was magic. People today still think it was intentional.
  • ladydiskette
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    I know what you mean, I get Shinji's character, because some of the things he feels I can relate to, but it was so minor and temparary compared to how I connected with Asuka. I mean, I know she is suppose to be the arrogant, bossy, vindictive bitch I have met in my life that I've hated (so I am not suppose to like her) but after that episode where the angel mindrapes her, and we saw her character a bit more...I started to gravitate towards her. Even more so when she was around Shinji and feels a confusing sense of disdain for him.


    I guess it's because she was always trying to find a way to prove herself even if it came off as the less desirable traits in her.

    Her fear of getting too close to people; of being hurt, putting up this tough front that makes her terrified if anyone sees her weak and vulnerable side because she doesn't want to be considered helpless. I can see all of that from her in myself.
  • OldAndNew
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    Sage summed the problem up perfectly, i thought. Shinji is fine as a character and his existential crisis would make for a decent story, IF we weren't already dealing with the aftermath of Judgment Day and fighting off Second Impact at the same time. sucks that you feel bad Shin-kun, but if you want to pilot an EVA you gotta get your shit under control. go see the doctor if it's that bad, and in the mean time no mech fights.
  • KouTheMad
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    naw......the show itself is though. 'trollface'

    it's sad that i put that trollface there when i actually meant that.
  • ladydiskette
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    lol okay, I was used to watching the English dubbed version and when I told some others about it they chided me and say I should watch the subtitled version instead.


    So to me, I thought I was the only one who didn't mind the english dub. :)
  • cannedfury
    Well, let's see. Shinji's whininess and Asuka's bitchiness are chief complaints about the entire series and the dub amplifies them something fierce. The pretentiousness isn't helped when no actor sounds genuine. It's not just a terrible dub, but a cringe-inducingly unlikable one that intensifies the series' flaws. The closest it comes to being humorously bad is when the ambiguously gay guy has a lisp, and he's only in one episode.

    As school kids who thought '90s dubs were great, we could still recognize this one as ear poison. The Eva dub was universally reviled blasted by every reviewer in its day, and this was before angry people on the internet were a thing. Like E.T. on the Atari, it's not THE very worst of its kind... but it is most definitely a legendary shitstain.
  • Lemmon
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    Yeah, i cried a little when Asuka started to talk
  • Sewblon
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    I almost punched through my wall when Asuka started to talk.
  • Jezzy54
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    Being an elitist snob should be punishable by law.
  • OldAndNew
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    but then who would make the TGWTG videos? *sniffle*
  • KouTheMad
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    i only watch dubs.

    come at me bro.
  • jurf-rokstar
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    Go cry to someone who cares. Weeaboo.
  • Unit112358
    no, showing people evangelion dubbed should be punishable by law. Watching just means you're stupid.
  • Amykins
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    So...just putting it out there, but what was the point of the VA phone call cameo? Why do you do this, to prove to the rest of us that you know voice actors? o.o;;
  • name93
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    Enjoyed the review, but now I just CAN'T wait for the End of Eva.
  • Tactlesscat
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    To be fair, part of the reason Evangelion is still getting any attention is because all its spin offs are better (in my opinion) and are just now getting us releases, and that's on top of the Re:Movies, which are also better than the original series cause there's a lot less pointless death and the characters actually seem to develop instead of flip out and make pretend psychoanalytical existential bullshit about themselves. Also the robots look better.

    Also part of Anno's complete buttfucking insanity and the series itself is half of it is just cool shit he saw and put in it. None of the deep thought provoking messages and analysis people think are there...are actually there. Anno straight up said "i just think angels are neat" and then made robot monsters with it. MOSTLY to fuck with his fans that he he HATES

    The Re:Movies have a similar key moments crammed into each other from the original series, but retold in a way that's less obnoxious, ie better writing. Like instead of having Shinji's bro friend DIE in the Eva 04, since we barely spend any time with the fucker and thus have zero reason to connect and give a shit about him if he did die, instead Asuka gets injured and becomes comatose (until the next movie where she has an eyepatch, which isn't out yet for us English speaking peeps because subtitles are hell).

    Further, in the Re:Movies, Shinji is obnoxious and has daddy issues but it takes this weird turn at some points where he seems like he is a normal human being and not a shitty teenager, and then there's the end scene in one movie where he MANS THE FUCK UP and goes into berserker rage because Rei nearly dies and he has to pull her out of some funky goo, and that happens not long after Asuka got fucked up. The only...downside is he nearly destroys the world in the process of doing so.
  • Tactlesscat
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    As for Asuka, honestly your complaints about her just seem to make the fact you don't watch anime regularly shine. Cause there is NEVER not a character LIKE Asuka in anime nowadays. She is the prototypical "Tsundere" she started a fucking trend and after eyes deep amount of crazy in obnoxious bitches, getting upset over one is just...kinda weird to be bothered by. I'm not saying your points are not valid about her, just that not a lot people are going to be able to relate with you about it after the saturation of bitchitude. Although it is REALLY WEIRD when in spin offs where the robots are backseated and Shinji's daddy issues are void that Asuka becomes this...much more relateable person with actual explanations to her bitchitude (like jealousy over Rei being the golden child) and even weirder is that they actually chastise her or just plain ignore her bullshit reasoning cause there isn't THE DEATH OF THE FUCKING WORLD AT STAKE.

    WHICH REALLY is the come down. For the same reason you explained Shinji not having perspective, so too do people have perspective with Asuka. Sure it's cast in a sympathetic light, but honestly, more to the point, they put up with Asuka's bullshit BECAUSE SHE ISN'T HESITANT TO GET IN A ROBOT EVERY SINGLE TIME SOMETHING COMES TO KILL THEM ALL WHILE SHINJI IS DRAGGING HIS GOD DAMN FEET. ALSO, SHE'S BETTER AT IT THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THE TEAM. Asuka is a 80s Super Robot Pilot in a 90's Hybrid-Real's world.
  • Sewblon
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    I disagree completely.

    1. Every modern anime having a character who is the equivalent of Asuka does not make her more tolerable. It makes modern anime less tolerable.

    2. Asuka is more competent than Shinji is, but the framing of the story renders that irrelevant. The main series focuses on the characters and their relationships to one another rather than the plot per-say or the world at large. Thus the characters' personalities are more important than their actions in the plot, or their place in the world at large. Finally and most importantly, Asuka's personality is so infuriating, that there is no excuse for it, no matter what. To be fair, my hatred of Asuka is not completely rational, but asking me, or anyone else, to tolerate her, is still asking far too much.
  • KouTheMad
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    considering i despise Tsunderes.......i hate Asuka more than i did, which i thought impossible, for her starting that shit.
  • Mattman324
    What? No. Asuka didn't start the Tsundere trait in anime. Hell, she's an EXPY OF SOMEONE FROM THE SEVENTIES! (that person being Tetsuya from Great Mazinger... hell, Shinji takes a few cues from Jun) Tsunderes were all over the place before Asuka came along and thrust them into the spotlight (and not surprising, given GaoGaiGar's purpose to completely invert everything Eva deconstructed, THEIR red-headed tsundere from FINAL was actually awesome and didn't let literally being completely broken as a human - seriously, she was made of second-rate mechanical parts mostly - stop her from kicking ass!)

    No, if anyone got their face plastered over the anime world, it was Rei Ayanami. Ok, so Moe was around before, true, and Kuuderes had existed, but Rei had a particular blend of emotionlessness and literally fulfilling every perverted fetish out there (yeah, Anno was going for that) to make her go everywhere, like a twisted version of Char.
  • Whisky Tango Foxtrot
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    So was this review about the "Death and Rebirth" movie specifically, or was it about the series in general? I haven't seen either so I don't know if half the things you're referring to were actually in the movie in the video's title.
  • ohe
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    Uhh... Shinji's wussiness irks you because, compared to the Bay-tastic cataclysms happening in that setting, his attitude is... self-indulgent? You just make it sound like you're offended because the character robs you of your precious pop corn action. There are good reasons to not like it but that isn't one.

    If you're making the point that Shinji should "get over it", you're just proving yourself deserving of the "you just don't like it because you don't get it" -clause, because the series itself goes over its way to make the point that it's the rest of the world that's equally self-important as well. Being the entire world, so you know, duh. But now here's the catch, which I wish could voice out in ironic whisper:

    ~It's not really the World. It's a cartoon.~

    The "world" in this case is not the entire existence that actually is it's own measure and therefore allowed to be self-important. It's the audience that assumes the authority to judge the film, as we actually are the only reason this fictional world, in which the presumably important things are happening, has any value. Therefore, the entire world doesn't have the high ground over Shinji to be automatically more important than him, and we must provide the explanation why it should matter, why Shinji should care. So, basically the protagonist and/or at least the character we're supposed to relate to in this story, is indeed not Ikari Shinji. It's the big guy himself. The personification of all the forces in the universe who, ahem, observes all that takes place in the world. God.

    A cartoon God, but still.
  • TragicGuineaPig
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    Ah! An excellent bunch of pretentious claptrap! And I should recognize pretentious claptrap, because I was a humanities major in college.

    Fictional worlds exist primarily to entertain audiences. We can sit here and discuss the existential dilemmas within Shinji's mind, and what they all mean, and how they apply to us, until the 14th angel descends. But it doesn't mean anything. And frankly, the whole, "You don't like it because you don't get it" line is so overused and condescending, it really has no meaning whatsoever. Did it ever occur to you that the reason someone doesn't like something might have absolutely nothing to do with whether they "get it," but everything to
    do with whether it's any good? Have you ever had a little kid tell you a stupid joke, and when you don't laugh, they immediately start saying, "Get it? Get it?" In your own mind, it's not that you don't get the joke, but rather that the joke isn't good. The same applies here.

    Your last paragraph, while an interesting idea, is completely irrelevant. There is nothing indicative in either the film or the series to give us the impression that we are supposed to identify with that world's God rather than Shinji. Nothing in the story gives us any sort of divine perspective apart from the characters, and certainly nothing to indicate to us that we should be looking beyond them to the divine essence. It's not that I don't get your idea; it's that the idea is like that kid's poorly-told joke.

    In short, NGE is an insanely written, poorly-executed, pseudo-existential, pseudo-intellectual work that, while quite remarkable within the history of anime, does not deserve nearly as much of the praise it receives. Like a small kid's poorly-told joke, it's not about "getting it", but about whether there is anything worth getting from it.
  • katefan
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    Great review.

    I don't have to like the characters in order to like a series, but I at least have to find the characters interesting. And sadly none of the three kids in the show are the least bit interesting. They are all annoying in their own ways. And I don't think watching the show with subtitles would make them any less annoying.
  • ohe
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    If some people have the luxury of talking very many teenage girls before they're 20 years old, and NOT come across people like Asuka ever so often during that time, good for them. That just means they're lucky as balls for having been born to that particular geographical location.

    That being said (and having talked to quite a few females before I was 20 years old) Asuka is okay as teenage girls go. She'll grow. I just hope that happens before her bloated ego lets her down and completely destroys h-

    Oh.
  • Edrobot
    WE ARE DISPLEASED, SAGE.

    WE SENTENCE YOU TO REVIEW EVERY SINGLE EPISODE OF EVANGELION. AND THEN, WHEN YOU'RE DONE WITH THAT, YOU WILL REVIEW THEM... AGAIN!

    MWA HA HA HAH AH *cough* *hack*

    Yeah anno lost his shit didn't he?
  • Tashofthefuture
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    This wasn't that great of a review, sorry, but it came off less like "this is objectively bad" and more "This is how i wanted it to go!" Just because you wanted a big dumb Giant Monsters vs Giant Robots show, doesn't mean that it's bad, simply for wanting to be more then that.
  • Sharkerbob
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    I don't think he was saying he wanted the show to just be a Giant Monster vs. Giant Robot show. I think he just wanted the characters to not be repulsive, and the show's narrative to be better structured.
  • MichaelGrey
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    Evangelion DEFINED what it meant to be an overrated anime. There was genuine potential to be found here. Nor do I mind s creator trying to use his medium to answer his own questions about life or philolosphy. Not if it is done well, or with real heart. But Evangelion was just...it's head was up its ass with its bullshit message. I don't hate it. I just want it to go AWAY and sit in th corner until it turns in a-grade material.
  • ohe
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    Don't make conditions you won't hold up to. There already IS Fooly Cooly, Diebuster and Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann, yet even still you want it to go AWAY and sit in th corner.
  • Kinnikufan
    I always felt that Shinji's internal conflicts were being delved into because he was the "only" one that could save the world. In the end, it's as you say: He needs to stop bitching and start doing something about the Angels...unless he doesn't want to. To me, it was a matter of him not wanting to save the world because he hated the world for what it did to him. The scene where he talks about other people being his reason for piloting the Eva was totally true, if he didn't know those people and, specifically, if he didn't want to protect them, he'd let the Angels destroy us all because deep down that's what he really wanted (or at least that's what a part of him wanted).
  • ManWithGoodTaste
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    A suggestion to all who actually wants to check it out: ignore the last two episodes and WATCH THE SUB.
  • Extreme-Madness  - re:ManWithGoodTaste
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    Too late, I've already watched the last two episodes. I still have not recovered from that.
    But at least I Viewed SUB version of the anime, and other episodes in general does not seem so bad.
  • JessiRay
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    Shinji is the way he is because Nerv insist on picking messed up teenagers to do intergalactic battle. If you were a fourteen year old and the father you hate put the fate of the world on your shoulders, you may go a little crazy and be a little selfish too. Teenagers are selfish, awful people. Eva points out how ironic it is that shounen exist as a genre, because teenagers are probably the last people you'd want to trust the world's safety too. Especially teenagers who have experienced so much trauma like Shinji and Asuka.

    Eva is definitely a love it or hate it series, but to me the first few episodes are boring. The middle and end are polarizing, but at least they're different than anything else. At least things happen and there's a plot besides something is threatening to destroy Tokyo and it's up to a team of kids to stop it. Say what you want about Eva, but it was unique among anime for its time and still remains extremely influential today.

    I don't really care that you hate Eva. I just kind of feel like you hate it for the wrong reasons (IE: It's not a simple monster of the week show). I for one think the pacing in the show is god awful, the english voice acting is unbarable, and that everything in the overarching plot needed better explaining. I also think the last two episodes are a "big lipped aligator moment," though a really interesting one. Eva isn't without flaws, but it's problem isn't that it's not a monster of the week, run of the mill shounen.
  • JessiRay
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    TD;LR: To use your analogy, Eva kind of asks the question "what would Peter Parker do if he had an unstable background and had to deal with the threats that Superman faces?" Anno's answer to that, whether you like it or not is, "freeze, cry, and destroy everything."
  • rcivit
    Kano is right. Dubbed movies should be illegal, period.
  • tomrule123
    ... but I love the Cowboy Bebop dub in the show and the movie... Steve Blum, man... We can't outlaw the good dubs...
  • Mothmouth
    After watching this review, I'm now thinking about whether I wanna see this film.

    On the one hand, this review made it sound intriguing about the things it does to attempt to... pad the time, like those ridiculously long pauses, while on the other hand, I've never cared for Evangelion for many years while hearing about it, outside of that goddamn theme song which everyone seems to remember.
  • nelsinki  - zankoku na tenshi no thesis (A cruel angel thesis)
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    I can't offer a decent defense for Evangelion, but I can't afford me to hate the series. It's just... probably Evangelion was one of the first 'serious' animes/mangas that I started to see far away on the 90's, I clearly remember how the series was promoted on the tv, 'Children, be nice... Because God is coming for you!", I ran to my home just after my physical education classes to eat spaghetti meanwhile I see Sachiel Blowing up the half of Tokyo-3 -even now that is a good memory-. That was one of the first Anime series to be taken out from TV programming basically for censorship against the erotic scenes -right now we know that was simply fanservice- the implicit violence -they put this series just after Pokemon so DUH, how you can be so stupid Mr Executive?- and religious controversy -when I was young, this series tell me that 'God' 'was the bad guy', and I grew on a real hard Christian enviroment-.

    So, I probably didn't understand on that time how really that series pretend to do, but in that time the 'Cabalah thing' and all those angels, and his apearance -I mean, an Angel like a planet on Black hole form, hell, Leiel even now is my favorite Angel/Monster/Creature/ Thing of Evangelion- all those things keep me intrigued about how this story will going to develop, and on those times, almost EVERYONE praises Evangelion, so, why I would be an exception?
    I don't really get along with depresive and unwillingness characters, so even with her noisy attitude, I really like Asuka, even if it's for the wrong reasons, she really try to be the hero in this story -and that says a lot on a series that don't have clearly heroes-. For what I'm hearing, english dubbing was really bad, in other languages we have more lucky, Shinji sounds a few less whiny and Asuka sounds more German/Russian like she originally was meant.

    I don't hate this series for personal reasons -maybe I am a little masochist inside- for me it's even more than a guilty pleasure, I like this series even more that the remake Ovas and yes, I comprehend and not debate why sage and other people hate Evangelion.
    I don't know, maybe if the time had been more fair with me and I could have started on anime/manga more later than I began -probably with FMA or Cowboy Bebop- probably my life would be better than is right now, but, this is how the things are, and nobody put me a gun on the head to watch this series, nobody stops me, I was really alone on those times and probably that is one of the causes of that, but even with those issues, I can not really afford me to hate Evangelion, now is not a 'Must see Master Piece', but I don't think that is a bad series. Thanks for the review.
  • That Anime Chick
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    Meh, I can't say I'm a fan of Evangelion (though the Re: movies are a nice step up).

    Still, can't wait to see you take on End of Evangelion, especially considering how royally fucked up that movie gets... seriously, there's a very good reason the Nightmare Fuel page for Neon Genesis Evangelion is so freaking long...

    (Also, what's with all the hate for Dubbed anime? They're not ALL bad...)
  • Sewblon
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    It is not so much hatred for all dubbed anime as it is hatred for early dubbed anime. As in, anime dubs from before roughly 1998.
  • That Anime Chick
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    Ah, okay then. Still doesn't justify people saying dubs should be illegal...
  • Tofu
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    People who says dubs suck is because they PREFER their anime to be untouched with their original seiryus intact. These people call themselves "purists".

    It could be one of 2 things. One of them being that the voice dub cast sounds 10 times loud, annoying, boring, or obnoxious of how the Japanese portays these set characters. Secondly, that people clued in on how the script was changed and they didnt like direction it was taking them.

    I m one of the few who can like both sub or dub as long as I have an excuse that I m watching an anime.
  • 2comicstudios
    RE: Asuka:

    I'm going to file this one under "You didn't get it". Yes, she's an infuriating hateful she-bitch, but she's SUPPOSED to be.

    Eva is in many ways a response to the giant robot series that came before it. In those series the main character's storylines generally unfolded exactly the way you wanted them to. A flawed character is put into a harsh situation, learns form the experience, and eventually becomes the hero you want him to be and saves the world. Eva is sort of satirizing these series by making many classic anime archetypes real(ish) people with real(ish) human flaws and showing just how much of a messy clusterfuck those classic series could become. Not only do the characters NOT rise to the occasion, they are crushed utterly and the entire world is destroyed as a result.

    It's basically the anti-giant robot anime.

    So yes, Asuka is an infuriating bitch, but that's the point. She's the "bitchy love interest" archetype when found in reality.

    And yes, there really are people out there like her. Be glad you haven't met any of them.
  • Sewblon
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    "Asuka is an infuriating bitch, but that's the point." That does not make the show any better, or justify her existence. Writing Asuka as the worst person ever on purpose is like pooping in the sink then defending it by arguing that it was intentional. If Asuka was a villain, making her the least likable character in the show would be perfectly acceptable. But Asuka is not a villain. She is one of the principle protagonists.
  • TragicGuineaPig
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    "You didn't get it" is an excuse used by those who want to defend something against criticism when they can't actually address the problems being discussed. A better question than whether Sage "gets it" is whether there is anything in that directorial decision that is actually worth getting. So what if she was intentionally written to be a bad character; it doesn't change the fact that she's a bad character.
  • Larie
    Personal reviews can't be objective.

    I think Evangelion was one big mindfuck, but a good one at that. Not only does it destroy the narrative and its characters in an extremely effective way by removing everything there was, it also destroys its own credibility and makes you think 'why am I watching this?' Which all somehow makes sense, if you relate it to the world in Evangelion and Shinji's mindset. Why does it exist? Why does he exist? Why is it worth saving -> watching?
    It's extremely pretentious, I know, but somehow that weird idea is conveyed perfectly. I don't know if I like it, but I'm fascinated by it.
  • TragicGuineaPig
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    Is it weird that I was also thinking, "CONGLATURATION!!!" from Ghostbusters also?
  • Soma
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    Eva, as a series, is one that I could not bring myself to finish or even continue to watch after a certain point. Even has hard as I tried at least 3+ times, from the beginning to refresh myself, I gave up around episode 6 or 9 or so. I grew to despise all the characters, of course especially the main character, and at a certain point didn't give a damn, about what was going to happen to them or anything, and just walked away.
    But I do see how Eva takes that whole mecha, chosen young teenage pilot theme that is present in so many anime series and turns it on its head. Yes teenage attitudes suck and so does the situations and experiences the characters go through.
    I have always liked the mecha design and Angels, and that is one of the only redeeming factors.
  • QuietOne
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    Well, those long pauses were more about budget saving more than anything. the series indulged in a lot of money saving tricks (like speaking characters holding things in front of their mouths so they didn't have to animate the lips)

    As far as I'm concerned, the characters can be summed up as 'really should be in dedicated therapy until they feel better about themselves instead of piloting suicide weapons against alien monsters'. Their all broken people, with broken psyches, and put under more and more pressure until they shatter.
  • pookie
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    Of course there's always the The Freudian Psychology interpretation of Neon Genesis Evangelion. Where Asuka Langley Sohryu (the Second Child and pilot of Evangelion Unit-02) is believed to represent the Id. Rei Ayanami (the First Child and pilot of Evangelion Unit-00) is believed to represent the Super-Ego. And Shinji Ikari (the Third Child and pilot of Evangelion Unit-01) is believed to represent the Ego.
  • Sewblon
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    Are the "Angels" that the EVA pilots fight literally angels, as in the servants of God? Or is that name just meant as a metaphor? Or did the show's writers just name them that because it sounded good?
  • Sewblon
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    Is there any particular reason that angels are attacking Tokyo in this show?
  • ToruKun1
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    Actually, from what I've read, in Japanese the Angels are called "Shito" which means "messenger" or "apostle". When Anno heard from the English localization team that they'd be renaming them Angels he thought that was a-okay. The Angels are supposed to be evolutionary off-shoots of humanity, what humans COULD have become, and for some reason they're attacking Tokyo because that's what every giant monster does in an anime. *shrugs*
  • Sewblon
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    So in NGE humanity could have evolved into giant monsters of various morphologies? I am not an evolutionary biologist. But based on this, I don't think that Anno is either.
  • cannedfury
    Not evolutionary but engineered. You know how in that one book, a nudist couple eats an apple and their claymator is all, "Oh no, now they can know stuff like me. I need to kick them out or they'll eat the one that makes them immortal, too?" In Eva, that translates to eldritch aliens who like to create life, but sure as hell don't want competition. Angels have immortal bodies but incomplete minds. Humanity, you can guess. The two creations aren't supposed to get mixed up in the same world, because who knows what giant problems and flooding that'll lead to.

    At its center, Eva has a fun, simple, sacrilegious premise about creators and their messed up relation with their dissatisfied progeny. But it completely lost its mind from there.
  • Sewblon
    avatar
    So, in the story of NGE, aliens created both humanity and the angels. Then humanity gained knowledge that could give them the same power as the aliens that created them. Then the aliens sent the angels to destroy humanity so that humanity could never usurp the aliens.
  • cannedfury
    Closer, but it might be time to stop jumping to conclusions based on what you hear in a comments section. Oh, who am I kidding, we live for cliff notes here.

    Nobody gets to interact directly with the creators; they seeded the universe with 2 kinds of life a billion years ago. Humanity turns out to be a horribly botched creation that didn't even come from Adam, and also had to painfully evolve from the primordial stage just to get the smarts that it did (...so the evolutionary offshoot thing is also right). On the upside(?), this same cosmic botching landed both kinds of seeds on the same planet.

    There are naturally several more fail-safes to prevent mixing including the planet-wiping kind. But with an entire race inherently unsatisfied with its flawed existence, challenges are issued and conflict ensues. Humanity isn't just going to dabble in ye ol' forbidden knowledge, it is going to hijack and corrupt God's own creations or break the world trying.

    Adam turns out to be the originator (seed) for the angels instead. An Eva (Eve) is something cloned from him, because rib. They're not covered in armor but restraints. People realize they're actually the malformed progeny of Lilith trying to possess and do other unspeakable things to the intended inhabitants. Things get darker.
  • angelcarnivore
    Yeah... while I've watched Eva- I didn't understand it until it was explained to me by a die-hard fan This all comes Miyazaki's Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind... and the fact that the movie failed to focus on BOTH princesses- Anno wanted to do the story of Princess Kushana- who is, roughly, Asuka- that is, to say, the princess who is NOT charmed, who always gets the short end of the stick, who does not have people rally to help her. Anno's been thwarted time after time- which is why he spitefully hates Shinji and made him about the most detestable character in anime. This theory of my friend's won't be truly proven until we get to finish all of Rebuild- but I believe him.
  • Sewblon
    avatar
    That sounds impossible to prove. But if it is true, it makes NGE's existence hilarious.
  • Fabio Bile
    avatar
    I thought Evangelion was awesome not for WHAT it did but THAT it did it. Like that opening scene from End of Evangelion, who saw that com... okay, that's a bad choice of words. Anyway, it's sort of like a wild jam session as opposed to a careful composition. Both can be great music, by different standards.

    The reckless creative energy is what made the show for me. The disdain it has for approachable characters, coherent events and audience expectations just added to the thrill. It's a rare thing to find a piece of mainstream Speculative Fiction that is so agressively at odds with literal interpretations of itself.
  • davidlev
    I must be one of the few people who liked Shinji. Or perhaps "sympathized with" is the better phrase. He's a kid who is going through some terrible shit and it seems to him like no one really likes or supports him-- Misato is the closest thing to a caring parental figure he has and she is alternately putting him in danger, randomly hitting on him, or being a drunk with her own problems. In my opinion, Shinji is depressed, and the thing about being depressed is that, most times, you can't just "snap out of it." In fact, being told to "snap out of it" (which several characters attempt to do over the course of the series) just makes Shinji worse, as he now feels guilty for his inability to do so.

    As for the whole "introspection isn't appropriate when the world is being destroyed" thing, I would argue that that's the point of the show--that this show is a deconstruction of previous giant robot shows by having the people responsible for defending the Earth being a collection of people with various human failings that get horribly magnified as the situation gets progressively worse. In concept, it's a cool idea, and I think to a certain extent the show delivers--although the budget stuff, pretentious and hard-to-understand philosophizing, and Anno being Anno somewhat cut into its effectiveness
  • jeshnyx  - Move out of the way! Big Eva Fanboy Making his mar
    avatar
    Ok Sage I can respect your opinion and that you dislike the franchise. That I am cool with.

    Now being the big fanboy I am of this show ever since I came across the manga in my middle school library 7 years ago, I came to be fond of the franchise, the manga were amazing to me, the show was cool though it did make my head hurt, and the current rebuild films being made in Japan are awesome.

    Now Shinji does seem to be portrayed as we're suppose to dislike him and yet he's gotta grow balls and be the hero, yet for me personally I was able to connect to him a lot. I mean he does make some certain choices that I would make if I were in his shoes like when he realizes he was sent by his father to pilot an EVA for the first time, he refuses to because it was all his dad ever wanted of him. I would be pissed too if that happened to me under the same conditions. You could say that I really dig this show because I see myself as Shinji (though not about as messed up now) and it helped me look at myself to get through hard times.

    Asuka to me doesn't come off as annoying as shinji, though that doesn't excuse that she is definitely a cold hearted bitch. Yet when her past is revealed to be not exactly as thrilling as shinji's, that made me see her with a bit more sympathy: she never had it easy her whole life, is strictly raised to be practically a child prodigy for the sole purpose to pilot a biological WMD. people have to wonder why there's not much openings for teenage mecha pilots because you have to be fucking crazy to be one.

    Otherwise I like the setting, story, the animation is great except for some of the later episodes... and characters are mostly unique to me.

    My feelings for Death and Rebirth though... Trying to retell the first 24 episodes in 70 minutes... this is why I really like the rebuild films. Cannot wait to see what your argument is going to be like for the End of Evangelion! I may consider you the yin to my yang of the Evangelion Scale Sage.
  • texas godzilla  - All roads lead to NGE...
    I've seen this series about three different times over the course of the last 6 years - it took me that long just to stomach this series. Eva is one of those series you really want to like, but it's so uncomfortable, that it makes it hard to like it. Shinji is easily one of the worst protagonists in all of fiction. Tenchi Masaki would tell him to grow a pair. He never truly stands up to his dick father and he doesn't seem to put everything into perspective until the very end. Asuka is easily the worst personality I've seen in a piece of fiction that wasn't a villain, and truth be told, she should have been a villain. It would have been cool if her little choo-choo finally went completely over the cliff (not that it didn't) and just straight up tried to destroy the world, forcing Shinji to man up and stop Asuka, one way or another.

    That said, I did like the creepy story going on with Rei. Honestly, the story should have stayed focused on what happened to her, and ultimately bringing Shinji's dad to justice, than their own personal psychoses. This anime is a good example of what happens good ideas ripen in the sun...but then are left to rot because you've moved on to hit a bucket of PCP.
  • tomrule123
    Eva Dub Sucks in Death/Rebirth and End of Evangelion. DO NOT LISTEN IN ENGLISH DUB... until Funimation gets the hands on those titles and then make a much better dub. FUNI, OR SOMEONE RESCUE THEM!

    Interesting enough, the Rebirth segment has a story when it comes to American Rights. The original version of Rebirth was never released in America, and was instead the actual footage of End of Eva. (which is what's on the Manga DVD's) The original Rebirth has the same story, but has different dialogue presentations, alternative animation and music. End of Eva had a much better turnout than the original Rebirth did, but to get the original version of Rebirth is very, very hard to get... and if you do find it, it wouldn't be in high quality! Completists are screwed!!

    To those that have never seen End of Eva before... Let me state something: It's one of the best films out there, but at the same thing, it's one of the most f*cked up films. There's your summary. First, see the series. Then see this.
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