So, what I'm getting from this review is that... this game is basically porn.

And what's wrong with that?

It all seems a lot more interesting that WoW.

So I guess portraying women in games in this way is ok because games are basically porn - a vessel for male wish fulfillment. Not a new argument.

Ok, now try to imagine that you are going on a date. And the woman you are dating is asking: "So what are you into? What are your hobbies and stuff?". And you are answering: "Well, I'm a porn watcher. I just like to relax and watch porn all day."

Do you realize how pathetic that sounds? And that's pretty much what women hear when you say you are a gamer, and they aren't incorrect about that.

Oh sure, because in games men portraying totally realistic, like every average men have muscles like Ryu from SF, or have pretty face like Dante from DMC. Give me a brake, fan-service is not exclusive only for women characters and I don`t see what`s wrong with that.

"But men are objectified too!", that's another old and tired one. If men in games looked like this:
http://imageshack.us/ photo/my-images/191/ dd88a161cb5497387aef25a.j pg

(why does it randomly insert spaces into url?)

then maybe you'd have a point. Look at that image carefully. How does it make you feel? See the difference between this and Ryu, Dante, Marcus Fenix et all?

Verk, I don't really mind that image since I'm bi. I'm also a gamer. Your argument really only applies to hetero men, so it doesn't hold water very well since it's restricted to the context of sexuality and not the gamer culture. Furthermore, your points rely on the pathos of disgust, but if you're a person that, say, does not mind what other people get off to, it doesn't work. Some guy wants to play a furry girl in a short skirt as they travel a fantasy world to see their tails bouncing around because it makes 'em tingly inside? Fine, whatever. Do not care, just as I do not care that many women apparently get off to yaoi, even though this can lead to my boyfriend and I being objectified by extension. There's room for everyone's libidos to be sated in this bizarre mass of madness we call the human race, and being offended at what others like because of the chromosome set of a /fictional character/ is largely pointless.

But, lets ignore the banality and futility of this entire argument for a second. You contend that women are objectified in games. I cannot deny this, but I contend that it does not matter in games where the characters being objectified are just player avatars with no voices. Objectification should only be offensive when there is a personality that is ignored, demeaned, or diminished by that objectification. The inherent disgust with objectification is that it dehumanizes, and in a game like an MMORPG a player avatar has no humanizing characteristics to detract from. They are specifically made to look how the player desires them to be, be it to look heroic, cute, sexy, or a self-insert. Save your vitriol for a situation where it really matters.

tl;dr: cAlM yOuR tItS aNd SlAm A fAyGo. :o)

Nope. My point does not rely on your disgust. That image was used to show a clear distinction between portraying men in a sexually objectifying manner, and in non sexually objectifying manner. It was in response to an "argument" that men are equally objectified in games. As for yaoi, no men are bombarded by it 24/7, the way women are by dehumanizing images of themselves.

I'm sorry, but society, games and media in general portrays average/ideal men as something i'm far from looking like. Maybe not in a sexual way, but the effect on self confidence is the fucking same. The difference however is that I use objectified images of men as silly ideals and objectified images of women as silly fantasies, as opposed to raging about my caracter having 300 pounds of muscle opposed to my 250 pounds of fat the same way women complain about fantasy girls all having way too perfect protuberances.

It's not just about self-confidence. If you are a woman media tells you that you aren't even a person. See the difference?

See, that's where the second part of my comment was of importance.

Media tells me i'm a worthless loser and views women as objects. Fine by me ; i know i'm not worthless just because i don't fall in modern society parameters of perfection. I play music, I make art, I build fighting robots, all this negate what the media tells me.

If you're a woman, and you are getting hurt by what the media tells you (Basically - Guyz luv it when u r sexy -) Its because you either have nothing to reassure your humanity, in which case you prove them right, or you are dramatising the message and overlooking everything about you that makes it wrong. Getting offended by it is admitting they're right, because if they were wrong you'd just have to brush it off as so, but no, you get offended.

Media dosent rip you of your humanity, you do that to yourself, media sells, media tells lies, its their game.

I'm not complaining about media persuading women that their only purpose in life is to give guys boners and pop out babies. Even though it does and it is horrible. Far bigger problem is that men are taught same thing about women, and then treat women accordingly.

Show of hands: Who here was actually taught that? I sure as hell wasn't, and neither were any of my boyfriends or just guy friends.

Do you realize how much of a fuck I do not give?

I enjoy what I enjoy. You and your opinion of me can go fuck yourselves for all I care.

fake feminist trolls...i didn't realist tgwtg got them too. lol

And naturally you ignore the brunt of my post like a total coward. And you wonder why everyone is pouncing on you and your insane, inane and offensive bullshit? I'd liken you to Hitler, but Hitler had charisma.

You don't mind the image because you could find yourself attracted to it.

That... I don't... that's the stupidest thing... missing the point... no. Just... no.

Objectification is not cool. Even if you think you have a good reason. You are turning a person (or the idea of one) into a non person so that you can do things to them or at them that you would not normally do.

She was asking how I felt, and I felt absolutely nothing. I was not attracted to it (trust me, I hate the body-building look; there is no sexy to be found). It was still objectifying my gender, but I frankly did not care because shock-value arguments are easy to produce and are logically bankrupt.

I know objectification is not cool. I frankly think it is detestable. I'm a furry, and I groan whenever I see genuinely interesting characters like Renamon turned into sex symbols because she has an attractive body by the standards of my fellows. I do not like it when personality is ignored in the name of fanservice. But I'm not gonna get bent out of shape over it. It's their art, it's their libidos, they can do whatever the hell they want. It's not my right to tell them that they are somehow wrong for wanting to make wank material.

But again, there is no /person/ to "turn into a non person" when it comes to player avatars. There is no personality to take away from aside from one's own. An avatar is, more than any other fictional character conceivable, an object, and an object that is made depending on what the player likes. That is what they are meant for. I'm not going to pounce on someone for what they like short of sexual sadism, and I think it's silly that anybody would.

We're on the same side here, Furrama. Just a difference in opinion on where the line should be drawn.

Your point about player avatars is kind of flawed I think, because in some cases they DO have personalities, at least as much as any fictional character does. Their personalities are simply defined by the players rather than the game makers. Now, for some players, this means avatars are empty shells, because they don't care about the story in an MMO, and certainly don't care about the Roleplaying part of an MMORPG. They just want to quest and pvp and grind and whatever.

But some do, and they make their player avatars characters of their own. Others make them extensions of themselves. For both cases, I think you should see the issue with Terra: lack of options.

If someone wants to create a sexy character who enjoys showing off her body, fine. If someone enjoys showing off their body in real life and extends that to her avatars, fine. The issue is they have no choice in Terra, at least from what I've seen, which is admittedly little. But I somehow doubt there is some great diversity of non-skimpy costume choices.

Fair enough point, though roleplayers in MMORPGs do still have free reign with what they want their character to be, which falls under my mini-tangent on how the furry fandom treats Renamon and how it's not my right to tell them to stop liking something.

As for lack of options, yeah, I could see some genuine grievances if that were the case. Until the game actually launches though, no real judgement can be made on that point, right? It's still just in beta. I know that there's very little chance that they'll add enough non-revealing armor for the taste of people that care about that sort of thing, but there's still a chance before launch.

I don't look for good reasons when I'm looking to waste time doing useless shit.

Most women don't really like that musclebound steroidal look. You know why men hate Twilight, but girls(and some of their moms) love it? Because Edward and Jacob are basically fantasy-sex-objects , and Bella is the way they'd like to see themselves (more or less the part about being liked by everyone without having any sort of interesting personality).

The same is true for this games and 80s action movies and superhero comics. If female gamers would find them attractive, there would be a whole lot more of them playing Gears of War or Halo and less playing adventure games or Sims or western RPGs.

"You know why men hate Twilight, but girls(and some of their moms) love it? Because Edward and Jacob are basically fantasy-sex-objects , and Bella is the way they'd like to see themselves (more or less the part about being liked by everyone without having any sort of interesting personality)."

Women see themselves as brain-dead suicidal hopelessly romantic freaking imbeciles? Women see a gray-faced messy-haired stoner-looking bloodsucking stalker as a sex object?

Apparently, according to Stephanie Meyer, women are lunatics.

Jacob I can understand, but Edward? Bella? JESUS.

State your argument then provide facts to back it up. This drivel has no direction.

Sorry. I'm going to have to agree with Verk and Engineered. The over-buffed male archetype common to most video games and comics is more about male wish fulfillment than female appeal. They're men the (typically male) player/reader wants to be like. If it were geared toward women, the male characters would look rather different, I think. Most (and I do say "most", there are exceptions) women fall in to two camps: they either like the broad-shoulder, square jawed man, or the more slender pretty boy. Video games rarely tailor their male characters to appeal to women.

Breaking news! Idealized images of people targeted at particular audiences are used as a marketing tactic to get more eyeballs glued to your book/movie/tv show/comic book/video game!

Weak-willed people with low self-esteem are susceptible to suggestions and may develop body issues and develop conditions like anorexia or body building addiction in an effort to meet this unrealistic fictional images!

News at 11!

Breaking news! Some people are entirely worthless and the world would be a better place if they were dead!

Yes because as we all know, wishing death upon people who disagree with us is the sign of a healthy, balanced person. I mean who doesn't view Dexter's Dexter Morgan as a paragon of a healthy upstanding member of society?

Anyway, please, keep talking. You're just making everyone's arguments for them. It's just so much fun for me, personally, when people are all to willing to just fall into their derogatory stereotypical roles.

It's just an observation. Throughout your entire existence people like you do nothing but make the world shittier place for everyone else. Your contribution to humanity is negative. So yes, world would indeed be better if you were dead.

While I agree that man boys have it far better as far as their portrayal in media goes, especially in the realm of sexplotation... Verk you are wishing death upon your enemies.

And setting back any feminist notions that might have made sense to these guys.

I hate games like this, because of the way they tend to treat women in general. I wish there was more balance between the sluts and the more normally proportioned ladies, (both can exist, but they must be allowed to exist). Girls play MMOs at almost the same rate as the dudes, and this sort of thing makes them pass off games like this as childish.

That's why I'm looking forward to GW2. You can play a tiny waisted chick with big boobs in a g string, or you can play a big snarly monster hell cat lady that doesn't have breasts because it wouldn't make sense for her to have them. In a big set of armor.

Equality in our fantasy. We must find balance.

Thing is, no feminist notions will ever make sense to guys like him. Ever. Won't happen. Just gotta wait for him to die and hope that next generation turns out better. So excuse me if I wish for this to happen sooner rather then later.

Verk, I say this with all the empathy I can muster.

You are sick. Please, seek help.

You wouldn't have made your initial post in the first place if you were capable of empathy. So don't bullshit me.

"It's just an observation. Throughout your entire existence people like you do nothing but make the world shittier place for everyone else. Your contribution to humanity is negative. So yes, world would indeed be better if you were dead."

Damn. And here I was thinking I was going too far with my comments. I salute you for your courage.

Sorry for wasting the air of the chosen people, by the way.

so being a misandrist piece of shit is better than a game showing some skin on female AND male characters?

all you have been able to prove is that you are incapable of holding a rational discussion, and you have some deep hate and resentment when it comes to the opposite sex.

normally i wouldn't say this, but i have a feeling your reaction to this whole thing relates to something in your childhood, sorry whatever happened happened, but not everyone is out to hurt you. if i am wrong about why you hold these opinions, i apologize, but all you are allowing people to understand is that you are so full of hate that even on a comedy/review site you find a way to insult everyone, and spew your hate.

Feminism makes sense. That's why it's been around so long. What you're espousing is not feminism. It's a little thing called "misandry." Misandrists like yourself simply use feminism as a cover for your wellspring of hatred for the Y chromosome that you can't even rationally justify. Sorry, but you're not even special in how you're an utterly awful human being.

@Furrama ; I agree with your second point, you should definitively be allowed to be able to choose.

I cannot agree however with passing on a otherwise good game because of the straightfowardness of the marketing. (Assuming here that the game IS good)

@DaXLR

I've heard it was beautiful and that the combat was amazing. But the quests and story are terrible. Lots of, "Go kill 10 rats", and "Give the guy right next to me a note for me. I'd do it myself, but I have a dumb."

As for passing on the "straightforwardness" I'll have to disagree I fear. In theory I could play a panda/thing as they are obviously not being used for such... marketing, but that's missing the point. It's not just a good bit of the female models that are being exploited in the name of "straightforwardness" but some of the male models too... but for other certain kinds of male tastes, (I guarantee that the guy in the little way down v neck outfit isn't there for female tastes). The whole thing has such a male gaze on it that I just don't feel welcome. Sorry my fellows, but there is clearly a "No Chicks Allowed" sign hung on a huge chunk of this game's art, so I fear I must honor that wish and pass.

Your argument makes a whole lot of sense. My opinion may be biaised because i'm male and therefore not affected by the issue (I admit, i'm attracted to those things so yeah, sorry but i can't really help it :S )

I guess i can't praise tolerance when i don't have to tolerate anything myself.

I still think however that in the context of a game its less of an issue since you don't actually need to ''be'' female on the internet, (After all, you become female only when you shout it out loud, we're kindof all shroedinger cats regarding that) Again, I may be biased and its beside the point anyway.

So I can see where the problem sticks, on behalf of many gamers, we're sorry these things still exists.

Still, i AM going to go and try it out. I always wanted to be a miniskirted furry thing busting people up with a giant axe :P

Nothing wrong with a chunky miniskirted furry thing with a giant axe.

I fear I'm a lady creature wherever I go, (though I don't offer that information unless it is relevant). It has a way of painting your perceptions and often what you will or will not tolerate. I do often play male characters because I'm often amused at how "human" or "regular" I am treated, (and to sometimes escape silly or boring female models, (Worgen, Tauren, Trolls)). It's really nice. There seems to be this "I'm automatically male unless I say I'm female" thing on the internet, not "I have no gender unless I say" thing. Kinda sucks. So I see why a lot of girls sometimes feel the need to clarify, unless they want to remain incognito.

You should really get out of in front of the mirror before typing stuff like that.

...wow. You're a terrible person.

Apologies, this should have been a reply to the "some people just need to die" comment the way it's come out on the page it doesn't quite look like it is for some reason.

"Breaking news! Some people are entirely worthless and the world would be a better place if they were dead!"

listen...you need to stop thinking of yourself in that way. we here at tgwtg don't care that you are a troll...no one should ever feel that way...

Verk is such an obvious troll. Stop feeding him. If he really thought video games = porn and he/she hates porn, why would they be on a website dedicated to nerdy stuff?

But your point is completely invalid.

Final Fantasy has never produced either of those types of male characters at all. Sarcasm! :D One of the most popular video game series ever.

Face it. This entire point is dishonest and useless. I wonder why that could be?

And yet feminists everywhere were up in arms when they gave Wonder Woman pants.

You obviously didn't watch much of the review, you forgot the dynamic combat, and political aspects. Though I would like to know if you can put a female character in heavy armor like the guys, I don't know how many people would use it but I'd at least like the option.

Is it, now? Might you then, perhaps, want to elaborate a bit, what exactly is the 'basis' of porn? Your further response raises the question as well. "Do you realize how pathetic that sounds?"... What is there to realize? Do you even know yourself, or are you in your self-righteusness just saying that people should not do what they can do only because it "sounds pathetic" to some people? Please, tell me. But alas, I doubt you can.

By the way, not many real-life women out there are making any effort in making themselves look good by any other standards than the standard of sexiness. Until they do, while also succeeding in it mind you, we're not going to see many fantasies feeding off of that reality.

Not to mention that the feministic front is making a real effort to paint even legitimately appreciative portrayals as sexist. Make a female 1337 hacker character? They say it emphasizes her physical inadequency! Make a clever thief lady? They say she's made to show how women can't be trusted! Now THAT's sad, grasping at straws like that just to make a point and be difficult.

I'm a big anime fan so I'm used to half naked woman flying around smashing at each other with overly huge swords. This MMO looks intriguing and it comes out around my birthday, definitely going to be buying this one, looks beautiful compared to TOR and the combat looks so fun.

I've been playing MMO's since WoW's 1st day of release and this type of combat system is a huge breath of fresh air.

Would love to see a GW2 beta look too if you get in Joe.

PS: Shared this with my Oceanic TOR guild "The Red Zone" (Aussie here. Pro tip for Americans, try pronouncing it written like Auzzie or of course Ozzy Osbourne style :P).

Is it just me, or did the facial feature sliders to jack squat? I'm getting the impression that the designers of the game are so proud of their work that they don't want any lowly players to ruin it.

I'm kind of divided; on one hand this is without doubt the best-looking MMO I've ever seen with very unique visual style, but on the other it's pretty limiting in terms of character design; macho, sexy or cute, and there's pretty much the whole range you can get. I have a real pet peeve against bikini armour; if you want some characters fight in their underwear, then at least make them sorcerers or something, and give them magical defense powers.

Now I haven't played any MMOs since Ultima Online, and brief experiment with the City of Heroes, and I doubt that this game'll change my mind, but at least it shows that there's little more imagination on the market than I gave credit to. Maybe next they give the player a bit more choice to how they want their character to look. The fighting style especially seems massively superior compared to WoW and its imitators.

The quest design though...saving pigs? Really? If someone mixed the Old Republic's storytelling with this game's visual style, and added in a bit more variety and player choice, I just might get into it.

So maybe in future a developer could combine the more engaging combat of this type with the stronger story focus of SWTOR.

TERA has been a joke for most sane people to begin with...

People that where playing the original game warned everyone that you get to end game fast and are left just grinding bosses in hopes of getting the "ultra super shiny epic loot" 24/7 in a "Play it for a month or two and never touch it again.." type of MMO..

You can also tell the crowd it's targeting with the female character creator, and the Elin (think 6 year old looking cat girls) that are dressed even more slutty for the "Creepy Japanese" crowd and weeaboo's..

It's just fanservice for "those types" it really is..

What one must be warned about this game is that it is impossible to solo after you get to a certain leveled area because even the most simplest enemys have tons and tons of health.
Also there are only 5 or 6 quest variations and a very very poor story line.
The good part is that you could almost go anywhere you want by a good control of jumping and hopping, but for me, that was it.
Like cattz said, good to try for a month or 2. But THAT'S IT.
overall, i don't recommend it. Even though the combat system was good, I found much better combat in Vindictus or Blade & Soul.

p.s I know this because I played it before in the korean server. Thank you

p.s2 But apart from that good review Commander Joe
Since you didn't get to that part i have no offense in this review.
I always look forward to it.

Over all that seemed rather intresting. Still I doubt that I would pick this one up as I am not huge fan of MMOs and GW2 is basically only MMO that I am waiting for.

Yeah its porn joe

This game looks really interesting, and the battle mechanics seem to be fun. I would definitely want to try it out for myself, except for the fact it's not free to play, and I can't really justify paying a subscription fee for a video game. Honestly that's the main reason I tend to avoid MMORPGs.

Also, I wanted to address the complaints others have about the female character models; while I can understand the points you brought up, I can't really bring myself to care. The hot girls look hot, the cute girls look cute, and I'm 27 and haven't even kissed a girl. Sooo, why don't you just ignore the evil, evil female-exploitative fictional girls, and let the romantically-crippled like myself have their fun.

You know, there might just be a wee bit of connection between your attitude towards women and your inability to get laid.

Actually my inability to get laid mainly stems from the fact that women terrify me, and I have no idea how to talk to them. Not to mention that I have no idea how complex social interaction like dating even works, or even how to get to point where I can even ask a girl out. You know this might actually be too much to let out about myself in a public setting; but hey, its not like I filtered anything else I've said before, so f**k it.

Also, I maintain a strict division between the fictional and the real world, so don't think my attitudes towards fake girls have any bearing on my attitudes towards real ones. I just don't see the point in all this uproar over things that don't actually exist.

Well duh. Of course they terrify you. They are real people, over whom you don't have 100% control, unlike fictional women.

Now you're just being a jerk, Verk. You're assuming that someone who doesn't know how to talk to women is a misogynist, and not someone that, I don't know, is shy? Or has an anxiety disorder? Or is autistic, maybe? I don't know this guy and I can't speak for him; I'm not gonna white-knight for him, since he's perfectly capable of speaking for himself. But you? I can draw a few conclusions about you. You are acting like a judgmental, self-righteous twat who needs to just calm the hell down and take a healthy dose of empathy, maybe along with a few classes on conflict resolution and how to properly treat human beings.

Cause we all have to be nice to poor widdle men, and care deeply about their feelings. Not to women though, they can go fuck themselves. Also, you just tried to insult me by comparing me to female genitalia, you empathic dude.

Guys, guys, there is no need to devolve into name-calling and insults. Aren't we all adults here?

Verk, I really don't know what to say to you at this point. You seem invested in painting me as some kind of misogynistic shut-in, talking about how much better 2D women are than 3D women, because they'll be and do whatever you want. No. At best girls like the ones in this game are fleeting bits of eye-candy, a moment's entertainment if you will. Real women shouldn't let pandering material like this damage their self-image; it's just a little bit of fun, and means nothing in the long run.

Shallow and self-centered people will find whatever inspiration they need to justify treating women like crap, telling them they're not shallow enough, not pretty enough, too smart, too fat. One game is not going to change things one way or another, because only the people that matter will always treat women like women, and not objects.

I'm sorry, that was kinda a long tangent, wasn't it? I just don't really understand how treating objects as objects, can translate into treating women as objects. Maybe it's just me, but those are two entirely different situations, that should really have no bearing on each other. If it's wrong to hold a real woman to the standards of a video game character (which it is), why shouldn't the reverse be true as well?

Also, LDS, thanks for sticking up for me. Since you brought it up, I am autistic, although I have high-functioning Asperger's Syndrome, which mainly mean that social interaction makes absolutely no sense to me without extensive research and training. Unfortunately the whole "girls" subject is something I've yet to get any educational material on. Most of the time people just tell me to go with a gut feeling I'm supposed to have, but don't. Thus, I'm basically in the same place I was in Junior High in terms of my understand of dealing with women.

No Verk, you should be nice to everyone who displays common human decency. You do not. So I can safely say that you are judgmental, self-righteous, and a total bastard. Your opinion is utterly offensive to the sensibilities of every sane man and woman here. You're attacking others and wishing death upon them for disagreeing with you and ignoring all arguments that you can't counter. You need to shut off the computer, go look in the mirror, and take a serious, introspective look at what the hell you're doing with your life.

It's a shame Koreans don't make console RPGs (though the ones they have made -like MagnaCarta- haven't been all that great). Also,I'm a parent and I don't see anything really objectable. If anything those younger-looking loli characters are creepy,but nothing you don't see every day on the interwebz. Hell,Kingdom Under Fire had similarly skimpily dressed female characters and that came out almost 10 years ago.

The Korean console industry was literally butchered by piracy. Every one was playing the game while a bare 100 was sold out.

Cool monsters and good graphics but I pass on this one.

After watching the review I now really want to play this game just because of the Elin race. I get why people would say it's wrong or looks like a child but I would love to play one :/ and really I'm 20 I'm a girl but because I'm short and smaller people often think I'm 14 anyone ever think maybe us shorter girls that don't have giant chests might want to play a character we can relate to. also it's not like you have to pick the more showy clothing >> don't know those are just my thoughts.

If TERA shared the same ''pay once and play forever'' system I would favor it over Guild Wars 2. The graphics look much better than GW2's to me and characters seem to move more fluidly.

The 'fullplate bikini' trope and hips-that-won't-unsway nature of the female character models is stupid enough, but the lolicon? It's one thing to have younger/smaller/cuter character options, it's another to make 'panty shot' their default pose & outfit. Don't care about the gameplay, this one doesn't deserve my time.

Oh bullshit, men are objectified too in comics, video games, you name it.

The average man does NOT look like Superman, Captain America or Leonidas from the movie 300.

Similarly, the average woman doesn't look like these characters.

***TERA looks like a lot of fun, it looks very fast paced and dynamic, like Joe says.

Already replied to this stock argument above. I know what images of muscular male body presented as a sex object look like. They don't look like Superman or Captain America. They look like Tom of Finland.

Buxom beauties in an MMO? Yes, please! It's kind of sad, but perhaps World of Warcraft will need to introduce some skin-baring outfits in order to compete with Tera.

Anyone notice that this game looks like it's running on the same engine as Soulcalibur V?

It's absolutely disgusting how many people are dismissing this game just because of how the females look. Yes, they look sexy. So what?

Yes, there are young girls (who are actually very old if you read up on their race, hence just making them midgets). So what?

Yes, there are jiggle physics. So what? Hell, that's been around for years already.

It's shocking how the gameplay and graphics are overlooked because people suddenly feel uncomfortable playing a game where women characters are wearing less. It's only porn if it's OBVIOUSLY porn (like actual sex going on). Otherwise, you're deliberately choosing to think of it as porn.

It's actually rather funny. I'm sure people would look at this game better if women wore more clothes. It's embarassing to see my peers freak out over this game over something so stupid and petty that it's even MORE immature to dismiss it than it is to accept it.

I'm getting this game. The gameplay looks incredible and even if it's a short-lived experience, I'm sure it'll be great until Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV Ver. 2 are released later this year (or until I go back to Final Fantasy XI... which is inevitable).

"Yes, they look sexy. So what?"

-Sex sells.

"Yes, there are young girls (who are actually very old if you read up on their race, hence just making them midgets). So what?"

-People get freaked about that. Be it minor-issue, the way they are portraited or just because some like to think little kids shouldn't beat things over for selfish gains. (Yes, that is what they look like and that is what people will be thinking. You'd be surprised how little people do pay attention in backstory in games like this. That is why mostly the gaming-companies ignore good storytelling as well.)

"Yes, there are jiggle physics. So what? Hell, that's been around for years already."

-And that has never been reason to put it in anything like this. We have h-games and such for that. We have, as said above, porn for that...
When I take up a game, I'm thrilled to see if and nowadays mostly when there is some erotic material included in there for very flimsy reasons. That's why I'm a pervert. No reason to hide it.

But that acceptance of the simple fact about myself gives me also clarity over certain other things in games.

Like you'd say here...
"It's shocking how the gameplay and graphics are overlooked because people suddenly feel uncomfortable playing a game where women characters are wearing less."

Graphics are surely nice here. No denying that. Heck, graphics are awesome in most of the games these days.
Which is also reason why so many games suck nowadays. They make them so pretty looking that they really have no time whatsoever for the gameplay, plot, characters or even invent things for players to do.

Other way to hide these lackings is... By putting some T and A in game. "Some".
And no. Men, the way they are portrayed here, are truly tame in comparison to their non-functional, storywise illogical counterparts. Really. If your girl would say that she's going out to kill evil trees that kill piglets, would you really give her a thong to wear? And if they are so mobil-wise and helpful, why ever on God's green Earth or any other planet do men wear anything else? Shouldn't they be running in thongs too?
(Here's for me hoping neither would. I do know how to google sex for my pleasures if need be.)

So pretty looking doesn't always work. Gameplay?
Well...
What we saw here basically was running around, doing a little jumping and lot of repeative smashing. Low-levels, so sure there some limitation to skills and whatnot, but basically, as Angry-Joe pointed... It's pretty much kill things...
Haven't seen that in a while...

But hey! They can climb on very restricted areas and fly with pegasi and move around while fighting and...
None of them are really new things, are they? Climbing is fun, but even that seemed to work more for eye-candy, flying mounts are old as games themselves and someone finally invented to add fighting-game mechanics to MMPORG?
Well give the guy a peanut. Or a cookie.

In the end... I don't really mind THAT much if my game is just filled with naked ladies and sex scenes (which is basically what Mass Effects are about. There's even parody of it in youtube...). But making games look like this just plainly yells at a player that the gaming company didn't have time or interest to make their game interesting or revolutionary. They just wanted to make a game that is rather playable with big hook, like erotic themes, were into adults or kids, that would fish in the player who just want to have something nice looking to play.

I just personally want a good game. That don't need to look good, if everything else works. And perhaps without all the fan-service trying to pull my attention from all the flaws of the game in rather... "Look! We have boobies! Concentrate on them and ignore everything else! Buy our game, it has butts and boobies!" -style...

But that's just me.
Ps. Sorry about posting so much. First time. Be gentle...

Hot girls

This game looks awesome; gonna have to give it a try for sure-thanks Joe!
Not sure why its getting such bad feedback for being too racy. An MMORPG where the girls looks good and finally have some reveling outfits-sounds good to me. If you want a "G" rated mmorpg, do Worlds of Warcraft were you can be like every other elf clone #3,300,247.

Is it just me or are a lot of the dudes hot as hell? The first exposure to this game I had was a friend showing me videos of the character builder and I'd definitely play as a male Castanic. They look like something off the cover of a Harlequin romance novel.

God these arguments are so fucking stupid. First off if you’re going to argue objectification, you better understand what objectification is. It is to objectify, to make someone inhuman; it is not limited to sexuality at all. It is common knowledge that both men and women are objectified in popular media, but the means of their objectification are different. Women are objectified as subservient sex objects, and men are objectified as anti-social killing machines, these are both masculine stereotypes that are easily visible in all of the gaming industry (mainly because it is a male dominated industry as such many developers make their games in a way that they think they and others like themselves would enjoy). Next is the loli stuff, yeah its weird and pretty creepy, but I don’t find it offensive. The game was developed in south Korea (at least that’s what my research says), another country with its own culture and beliefs, this kind of thing may be considered relatively normal over there. It is only our Judeo-Christian culture and up bringings that convince us that there is something sickening and wrong about this kind of thing. It is not our place to judge other cultures and people because we don’t like them. The game should be judged on how it is as a game nothing more. It’s all pretty funny to me, that we live in a world were games like gears of war and other hyper violent games are seen as normal and leave little argument, but the moment a female character or a child is depicted as showing just a little too much skin people begin to call down hells furry on one another.
I for one would pick up the game if I wasn’t a broke college student, as it does look pretty good and as a much needed change from the usual MMO crap that’s usually pumped out.

The combat reminds me of DDO's combat. I really liked the combat in that game. I really wish more games would adopt that.

You know, women like sexiness too. It may not be for the same reason as men, but women may want to play as a sexy or cute character. AJ even pointed out that Amanda wants to play as the cute girl character.

So where's the harm? It's not like men, after playing this, would go out and judge women as objects just because a game featured skimpy designs. Many of the guys in this game are also portrayed as pretty boy guys that look like they would appeal to tween girls. I would not play as them, as I don't find their models appealing, but I don't find them offensive.

We need to lighten up about sexuality already. Sexiness or cuteness does not rob something of substance. One could easily make an existential argument that those so uptight about sexuality are the ones that give it an objectification meaning to begin with. Honestly, half-way through this video, I stopped even taking notice of how skimpy the outfits are because they just blend in with the game's aesthetic style. That's how fantasy works. Things that are not like our normal world are considered normal in a fantasy world.

Personally, I won't be playing this game, and it's not because I'm offended by the models or anything. I'm not an MMO guy myself (I think the only MMO I'm looking forward to is MechWarrior Online), and Tera's particular style is just not my taste. However, I don't judge those who are into that kind of style. To each his/her own, live and let live, stfu.

"It's not like men, after playing this, would go out and judge women as objects just because a game featured skimpy designs."

Well no. You already do it all the time, and things like this game just give you extra conviction that your behavior is acceptable.

"Well no. You already do it all the time, and things like this game just give you extra conviction that your behavior is acceptable."

That's a pretty wild assumption. Who's the more judgmental here?

I'm not assuming anything. When you deny sexism where it's so obvious, it's pretty clear why you do that. Also, using word "judging" here is wrong - you don't "judge" women as objects, that word implies that you did some kind of evalutation of evidence and and came to conclusion that women are subhuman. It's not like you did any sort of thinking before you came to that... So correct phrase would be: "men, after playing this, would go out and treat women as objects".

"I'm not assuming anything."

You contradict yourself right in your own comment.

"you...came to conclusion that women are subhuman."

"It's not like you did any sort of thinking before you came to that"

But no, I don't treat women like objects, nor do I consider them subhuman. That's a very radical twist and lapse in logic. I have no doubt that this weird logic makes sense to you in some way, but not all of us see things in such two dimensional thinking.

They put a lot of artistic detail into this, and the gameplay looks great, Joe is spot on.

The skimpy clothes? Honestly? It's a style I guess. My view has always been is this:

"Let me go as skimpy or as conservative as I want, and the in betweens, but let me choose - don't force it on me. And make it available for both genders, not just one, if you're going to bring the chainmail bikini for the female bring a chainmail loincloth for the male. But again, allow me to choose where on the spectrum I want to be. I don't want to do the skimpy thing, I'm rather go more toward the conservative side, but, I understand not everyone is with me on that. Provide the full spectrum and let everyone pick and choose from it no matter what they play as so that no one feels left out or forced into something they dislike if they want to play with their friends."

That's just me though.

The Ellin were creepy looking, but I don't see the preteen girl thing. I've never seen a girl of any age that looked like that. No my issue is they just look creepy, I'm not sure what it is but I just find them sort of revolting and that's considering I usually like cutesy races well enough.

The little gerbil guys were adorable though.

Also I don't see what people mean when they call this porn.. that sounds like a very extremist totalitarian viewpoint where you might as well call a guy in a speedo or a woman in a bikini on the beach porn if you're going to call this porn. Get a grip.

For fucks sake. It's not about how much skin is showing. Guy in a speedo and a woman in a bikini are not pieces of entertainment designed to make moronic teenagers and internet reviewers drool. Even if they were naked and screwing on that beach it still wouldn't be porn.

So a guy in a speedo and a woman in a bikini are not pieces of entertainment designed to make moronic teenagers and internet reviewers drool. Would you dare say they are...forms of self-expression? Hmmm...what a novel idea.

That's all I wanted to say. If you think hard enough, you can draw your own conclusion from there.

Are you claiming that artists put those models into the game not because they were told by marketing to sex it up, but because that's just how they see women? That's even more depressing.

Actually, I'm claiming that people may or may not like to play as a character that fits a certain style, or god forbid, sex appeal out of self-expression. I still maintain that there are women who like to be sexually appealing, just as there are women that don't. Either way is a form of expression, and getting angry at it really does a service to no one.

I can't deny that some people would look at this game with a disposition that women are just objects, and have the designs reinforce that. But who cares? Let them wallow in their own world of dysfunctional reality. They have the freedom to do so.

That's not even representative of the entire demographic that's into these style of designs. Most people that would be into this game really are just into a heavily over-elaborate fantasy-type design with revealing clothes and armor. Humankind has always seen artistic expression in the human form, and men aren't the only ones that do.

Many women like sexiness and like to be sexy. A friend of mine once wanted me to do a photo shoot of her in lingerie and revealing outfits because she wanted to feel sexy. We didn't even have a sexual relationship, we were just friends. Was there any objectification? Not at all. Current fashion is also all about low cut jeans and anything else that reveals.

Naturally, not everyone would be into that. I don't like the impractical designs in this game, I like more subtlety. However, all that really amounts to is just being a different perspective on beauty. People don't need crusaders to come in and hurl boulders of judgment just because they have a manner of taste disagreeable to an uninvolved party.

"I can't deny that some people would look at this game with a disposition that women are just objects, and have the designs reinforce that."
You have just described vast majority of men. I know you can't comprehend it because this problem doesn't affect you directly and you have no empathy, but that's a simple truth about world that we live in.

And here is the point where you have just broken down because you have no real argument anymore except 'men are pigs.' You're a sexist, and your arguments only reflect bias sexist rhetoric.

God you are stupid. I'll try to explain slowly so that you can understand.

1. Culture socializes men to see women as inferior and subhuman and existing only for men's pleasure, while women's own desires and aspirations are irrelevant. This happens even in "enlightened" western countries, nevermind everywhere else. This socialization doesn't work 100% of the time, but it works often enough. This shit is all over the place, and you need a special kind of willful blindness to ignore it, which you posess in spades.

2. Sexism against men does not exist in the way you suggest. Sexism, just as racism and other -isms is intersection of prejudice and privilege. Even if individual woman has prejudice against men, she does not have access to societal mechanisms of oppression that men can employ against women, hence she can't act on her prejudice the way men can.

3. It's "biased", not "bias".

HAHAHA this is rich. You're still trying to assert that you're somehow deeply knowledgeable about this subject. Sigh...that's a good one. Ok then.

1. If this were the 1940s, you would have a point. Today, however, the culture really socializes men and women to fill different gender roles (and not in the way you suggest) without so much one being superior and inferior to the other. Saying that, I do not believe in these traditional gender roles, and I actually don't believe in traditional family values at all.

However, this "argument" has nothing to do with the female designs of this video game. The designs don't portray women as inferior or subhuman (except if you count elves as subhuman or something). While we're on the topic though, you're really quick to portray men as subhuman yourself.

By the way, you're still throwing wild assumptions around as if they were candy. You really should stop doing that, as it only makes you look like an uninformed asshole.

2. Actually, women do have societal mechanisms to use against men. The law typically favors women in custody rights, alimony, civil suits, etc. Women also typically get 1/3 less prison time than men when sentenced for a crime. Domestic violence from women on men is never taken seriously, even though it is about as common as domestic violence from men on women. There are many more examples, but there is true gender inequality against both men and women.

Either way, you are spouting prejudice against a gender, and that is sexism. All you're trying to do is justify your sexism, and it doesn't work.

Once again though, this has nothing to do with video game models. You're still sexist, and societal mechanisms have no bearing on how a bunch of fantasy models look.

3. Either variation of "bias" grammatically works in the way I used it. I don't see why you found that important enough to warrant a numbered point, equivalent in importance as your "enlightened" first two points. Really, what does it matter?

Ah, you are an MRA. Should have said so.

Once again, you have just broken down because you have no real argument anymore. I have extended you the courtesy of actually addressing your points, and you just back down and throw some vague assertion again like it has some kind of weight to it.

By the way, I have no idea what an MRA is. Are you trying to tell me I am a magnetic resonance angiography? Perhaps a mail retrieval agent? Maybe I'm a Marketing Research Association. Now while I do own a rifle, I can't be in the Massachusetts Rifle Association because I don't even live in Massachusetts.

Either way, I'm sure whatever version you meant is meant to be some over-generalizing statement typical that a sexist like you makes.

Oh fuck you. You've made me waste so much time talking to someone who never argued in good faith for even a second.

LOL, how kind of you to prove my point yet again. You're a horrible person, by the way. I thought you should know that.

Coming from scum like you, that is a compliment.

I know you are, but what am I? :p

See? I can argue like a child just like you.

You remind me of a character from a short story by russian writer Daniil Harms. He's the guy who was very calmly and logically defending himself in court. Right after murdering whole family, raping their corpses and defecating on them. That about sums you up.

Thank you for that. /rolleyes

Btw, I like how you really did liken me to someone who calmly and logically defended himself right after you said I never argued in good faith for even a second. Your contradictions never disappoint.

Well he was logical - in his own head. He was kinda like a guy helping perpetuate a monstrous worldwide injustice by denying and minimizing it.

You know you just look like a rambling jackass at this point, right?

A lot of people bashing this game are reminding me too much of Blockbuster Buster's character Nerdlinger.

"Hot girl!? OH MY!" *faints*

I've seen skimpier outfits for comic book heroes and nobody gives them crap for it. Do the characters Power Girl and Starfire ring any bells?

As I said before, this game isn't racy. The people offended by skimpy clothes are trying to MAKE it racy. The women in this game are warriors. Not like they're all in the game as NPCs you get to meet through a sex minigame like in God of War (oh wait, that game didn't get crap for that scene either.)

Wait... I think I figured it out! It's ok when skimpy-clad women are NPCs in a single-player game with a big man as the hero, but once those skimpy-clad women are playable, OH NO! RED FLAG! SEXUAL GAME! AVOID!

"I've seen skimpier outfits for comic book heroes and nobody gives them crap for it."
Nobody you know, that is. Which is not surprising.

You know, in your complete bumbling idiocy you might have actually stumbled upon an interesting point. When Tera puts those blow-up dolls on screen and expects us to believe those are credible warriors, that is actually more insulting then having characters who are sex slaves. Not that God of War isn't sexist mind you. Player isn't encouraged to think about plight of those women and their horrible condition, he's expected to treat them the same way Kratos does.

OK, I have to step in: you have a quite twisted outlook of men, the society, and video games. You go your way to interpret every opinion and every action in these contexts as inheritly misogynistic; an attitude that is doing extreme harm to feminism by giving impression of hysteria and arrogance.

Yes, misogynism exists. Yes, its presence in society is stronger than many are willing to admit. Yes, parts of many video games reflect this reality, most notably in the fact that a female character is still often an objective or a supporter, rather than a well-rounded character in her own right. Many games however have subverted this trend in recent years, and insulting those efforts is in poor taste.

However, to insist that every single expression that sexualizes the female form is inheritly degrading and misogynistic is twisted and sad. Both men and women enjoy seeing attractive members of the opposite sex (save for those who prefer their own), which is not inheritly objectifying; it only becomes such if the observer is incapable of seeing anything but the appearance in the opposite sex.
If a game makes a female character nothing but eyecandy with no independent purpose in the plot, then you can indeed say that that it's feeding into this attitude, but if an attractive female character is presented as proactive and independent force in the plot, then crying foul against the fact that she is also sexy is taking things too far.

Incidentally, Kratos is meant to be an incredibly unsympathetic character. Mistaking him for someone to be admired is an extreme misconception of the GoW franchise. Its sexism stems from the lack of proactive female characters, not the existence of attractive goddesses.

"However, to insist that every single expression that sexualizes the female form is inheritly degrading and misogynistic is twisted and sad."
The hell? Where did I say that? Of course sexuality and depiction of it doesn't have to be degrading. But for some reason in this game, vast majority of other games and majority of every other popular media, it just is.

"If a game makes a female character nothing but eyecandy with no independent purpose in the plot, then you can indeed say that that it's feeding into this attitude, but if an attractive female character is presented as proactive and independent force in the plot, then crying foul against the fact that she is also sexy is taking things too far. "
Nope. You are falling into this fallacy:
http://harkavagrant.com/ index.php?id=311

If there is a female character in skimpy clothing who is constantly taking provocative poses and such, then having her also be an independent or proactive character, whatever that means, doesn't stop it from being objectifying and sexist. What could stop it from being sexist would be a believable explanation of why she chooses to dress and behave like that. Case in point would be a game called Nier, which has a female character who wears way less then women in Tera, but they kinda provided her with reasons to be the way she is so I'd rate that game more positively then this, for example.

What I mean by "independent and proactive" is a character who has a purpose of existing beyond fulfilling one narrow category in a story, such as acting as objective, eyecandy or quest automaton. This applies to male and female characters alike, and isn't fulfilled by for example an Amazon warrior whose only job in a story is to be tough and sexy.

The example which you provided is exactly what I did not mean; characters that are two-dimensional caricatures with no purpose beyond their looks. This applies to male characters as well as female, by the way; try to some time look how many dull, musclebound supermen and brooding but hot angst-balls fiction abounds to appease the female fanbase, and men who want to conform to the stereotype. Objectification goes both ways, even though one is more visually obvious, though in video games the phenomenon is more new due to the relatively recent shift in demographic. And it only becomes seriously bad if it's the only way the opposite sex is presented. Eyecandy in itself isn't inheritly bad, only if that's the only way a story can bring itself to deal with the opposite sex.

But no, I was actually talking about sexually attractive characters who actually have plot arcs and character development. Which is a way different from bikini-clad Amazons toting guns. As far as this particular game goes, being an MMO, it really should have provided a wider range of options for its players, rather than forcing every woman into a battle bikini and every man into Hulk-mode, but you can't blame blank slate characters for being shallow. It's the player's job to flesh them out, in this case.

Regarding the game's clothing: I do believe there are armors that are more conservative. Even Monster Hunter, the game which Japan agrees to have the 'sexiest female clothes' has extremely conservative stuff.

Damn, that actually looks really good. I've played several 3D MMORPGs but they were all pretty much crap. I gotta try this one.

You know I wouldn't mind as long as the men were wearing very little clothing as well. Or at least give me the option to have skimpy clothes on men and normal clothes on women. You cannot deny that the character design is skewed towards male desires. In my opinion it should be more equal opportunity.

I must be missing something cause I thought those little girls were cute too, but why isn't there a boy version? And why can't I be a female gerbil thing? What the hell?!

Seriously? JUMP GATES??? I... wha... this belongs into space, like the X series... or stargate maybe?

Anyway am I the only one thinking of something else when Joe mentioned BAMs?

Got something to do with a robot ... and a war ... and Reb Brown...