When joe is doing the interview with James Ohlen, that when Joe starts talking about the space battles , James starts to make a funny yes smile :snicker: :snicker: :snicker: :snicker: :snicker:

He should have told Joe that the space combat was going to be like Star Fox, and looks kind of nice.

I remember getting into space PvP when Star Wars Galaxies: Jump to Lightspeed was first launched, and it was pretty sweet. However a lack of support for the system lead it to quickly become a huge area of space with nobody inside it, and that wasn't fun at all.

I guess I'd say I'm optimistic, though - ESPECIALLY if they set up leader boards and a scoring system for each of the missions. But I'll be even more excited if at some point it looks like they'll plan to implement a more wide-open system, using the rails system as a jumping off point for designing "All Range Mode" PvP areas.

EDIT: Just thought of this - what if they carried the "arcade space combat" system to its logical extreme, and branched it out to fill other rolls? Imagine your guild party running a raid and having to [url=http:// www.youtube.com/watch? v=1Gzf0kR5AvE& feature=related]run around the ship fixing stuff while trading off pilots who would have to dodge asteroids and occasionally manning the guns[/url], THAT has the potential to be awesome!

I imagine a frantic "fix the ____" series of mini-games used to recover the ship's HP and heal status ailments, where the camera spins around and bucks with the movements of the pilot, making it difficult for the engineer to do his job, and also affecting the ability for the gunners to aim ("Damnit, hold it steady!" "I'm dodging asteroids here, give me a break!").

I think it should be wide open space battles, kind of like Star Wars Battlefront, which I think Bioware is trying to differentiate their IP from.

you know what has an awesome space battle? Halo: Reach!!!

I am actually very happy with this type of space combat. For one, I absolutely loved the Star Fox games. Secondly, it's not like Bioware has unlimited resources, nor do they have people experienced in making Triple-A flight simulators. To make good and completely free-form space game right from launch, and have a ground game that can match other MMO's, along with their emphasis on story, is too tall an order to fill, and I'm glad they are not attempting it because it would be highly improbable for them to get them all right.

Just remember STO...

*Edit* Also, having a space game present and enjoyable from launch is a better choice than trying to add it in via an expansion. Expansions are ment to expand on the current game, not add in completely different and unrelated features essentially making a different game. Having this from the get-go gives them a starting piont for further updates, such as free-form group missions and pvp, maybe even the guild ships that Joe would love to see.

PS. You didn't believe me several months ago when I told you there would be space combat Joe. So HAH!

*Double Edit* Sorry, just wanted to add in that even in it's current state, a tunnel shooter is still vastly superior to the "bombling missions" you see in WoW, as well as their vehicle missions. It would be an excellent choice for these kinds of repeatable quests, so long as it has a randomizing factor.

I agree with the STO comment.. and everything else you had to say for that matter.

STO somehow made epic 40 player space battles incredibly boring and repetitive. Swoop and circling endlessly from ship to ship just gets annoying after the first hour. This on rails eye-candy feast for the senses type set up is a much better choice, and hopefully, they can implement a cool way to have PVP that doesn't end up being a chore.

I like it too (Kotor Rail Battles), it reminds me of the Kingdom Hearts space battles with the gummy ships, and those where really good! =D

I think I'd like this style of space combat more then a complete open space setting. Cause the way I see it space is big and largely empty, we'd be forced to fly around looking for things to fight and then wait for them to respawn, bleh bleh bleh. Boring.

At least with this we'd have large scale and hectic battles each and every time.

Plus, and this is just me, I'm looking forward to this mmo for the character and ground combat. If I want a flight simulator I'll get one that doesn't cost me 14 bucks a month to play.

That's just my thoughts.

I'm with you Joe, although I would have loved to have something like x-wing or TIE fighter, tha alternative is quite good. So i`m optimistic about the game.

as long as we get a comical Fox McCloud reference or a "Do a barrel roll." joke somewhere in the game I'd be happy with this.

It looks like Lego Star Wars.

Yeah, it's too colorful. :pout:

Doesn't really matter to me.

He's been getting a lot of hate lately. I wonder why.

[color=green]Free shooter, rail shooter I could care less, I'm just psyched that there is a space battle in TOR, now I am really excited, damn it I can't wait all the way till 2011.[/color]

It's certainly better then having nothing at all. Though i really would have liked open shooting with the ability to pilot your own ships, even capital ships. There needs to be a game where you control a capital ship (a new one not star trek bridge commander). But as i said this is absolutely better then nothing. Plus it looks really cinematic and detailed.

[color=blue]Since they have said they will put pvp and co-op in, that pretty much requires that they will add free flying portions in. =D

Even Star Fox had "[b]All Range Mode[/b]" after all. I'm surprised Joe didn't mention that.

Anyways, it's something to build on.[/color]

Well, I don't mind the fighting to be on Rails, it reminds me of (like you said) a cleaned up star fox, or, in my opinion, the better comparison is the Star Wars Trilogy Arcade game, which whenever I find it I spend like five bucks beating the three missions.

OMG JOE FLIPPING OUT MADE ME SO HYPER!!!

Though I feel the space combat being on-rails might put a dent on the experience a bit. As long as they implement the freedom aspect we've all been waiting for, all will be fine.

Ok this is my first response on the comments for anyone on this site but i can't really take much of a side here. One side of me says this is good especially since originally there was not going to be a space combat system at all upon release and there are rumors and as Joe said there my be a full space combat with freedom to explore. But my other side says this is going to suck because I am a professional pilot in SWG and was hoping this game was going to have a good space sim upon release and it has detracted from my overall initial impression of this game. But again i have to remember swg didn't have a space sim till about 1 year after initial release. So im hopeful something good will come out in the end. Just as long as this game doesn't turn into another WOW clone with a star wars theme.

I've taken every bit of news I've seen about TOR with mountains of salt, however the space combat trailer did manage to shake even my jaded heart. I'm glad it's not dogfighting, to be perfectly honest - I've not yet played a multiplayer game that features dogfighting that was all that fun to play (at least to me).

However, as good as it looks, the veteran MMO gamer in me adds it to the numerous problems I see piling up for this game. Before I go into my thoughts about this, let me preface: I want TOR to do well. I want it to be the best MMO on the market. WoW is old and stale, and the fact it's gone almost an ENTIRE YEAR now without a (real) content patch is nearly inexcusable. I don't see Cataclysm freshening it up all that much.

That said, I am worried TOR is going to fail, and hard. Here's why:

Bioware doesn't understand the MMO market. Or if they do, then they're taking a gianormous risk by designing the game like they are. They're making the game entirely based around the leveling experience - cutscenes, space combat minigames, roleplaying with your party and NPCs, NPC love interests and a long personalized storyline. This is fine, but these are things people play SINGLE PLAYER games for, NOT MMOs.

People play MMOs for the end-game content. They want to grind for gear, they want to run raids and dungeons with their friends, they want to keep playing their character and become stronger in ways past just attaining the level cap will allow. This is what keeps people coming back, this is what justifies the monthly fee. The monthly fee acts as a tax, you pay it to keep the servers running and to pay the developers to continue designing end-game content to play.

TOR at the moment, from what I'm hearing, has very weak end-game content. I've searched and the only official word I've found that Bioware has given is that 'they've put a lot of thought into it' and 'they can't talk about it at this time'. Okay, fair enough, but the thing that really makes me worried is that in that same sentence, they say that the fact that there's so many different branching storylines makes up for that. I see this as a red flag, a way of saying 'we got nothing' without actually saying it.

They might make the game primarily PVP based at the level cap, but this isn't the best of ideas. The ill-fated Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning tried this model, and it fell on its face. Other games have tried it as well, and have fared similarly, the one exception being DAoC, except that DAoC had sizable PvE content too from my understanding, plus the fact there was nothing else like it at the time.

What I honestly think they should do is go for a free to play model with ads on loading screens and microtransactions for vanity gear, and then use a Guild Wars-style system of instanced areas. This would fit the RPG in MMO format far better than their current model if you ask me, which just do...

You can't say it's very weak if you don't know anything about what it is going to be like. That is pure speculation. Until they release something substantial about end-game content, I'm remaining optimistic.

I can't think of any successful MMOs with strong endgame content at launch. That is usually added with patches and expansions. What you have to do at launch is get the asses in the seats, that means good low/mid level content and good single AND multi player content. End game content is what makes or breaks any MMO but it's not a high priority at launch and it really shouldn't be. Nobody wants to have to put in 100+ hours into a game just to get to the "good stuff". That time and money is better spent on creating compelling stories, interesting characters, immersive worlds, fun easter eggs to find, and smooth bug free performance. Once you have all those things then comes the end game content.

I think the space combat addition makes allot of sense, free form space content would add far too much complexity to the game at this time. A nice polished rail shooter type of space battle is totally acceptable in my book, the gameplay demo looked great and should represent a nice change from whatever else you're doing.

I have faith in Bioware, they know how to make a good RPG (better than Blizzard when they made WoW)

[color=blue]I tried the game at Pax for a couple of the classes and they do a really good job of getting you right into the story and having fun from the start.

There's no WoW, 'Go kill 20 sick wolves and talk to me when you're done.' It feels heroic and like you're doing something important from the word go. (The Trooper opening in particular is really exciting.)[/color]

It's not space combat. It's space combat sequences. I suppose it'll be good for things like running blockades, but for full-fledged battles, it will only remind us of what might have been.

You know, I would love to see a free open space battle but I would have my doubts about it in this game. I mean with all the things that are already being put into this game, it would probably take an extra 2-3 years just to develop codes for space battles alone and then they would have to make those codes work with the rest of the game. I know that I can barely wait for this game to come out as it is and the rail shooter gives us a middle ground. sure you're not flying but you get a chance to still taken down enemy fighters or blow up a capital ship. This is a game of many firsts for MMO, as long as it flows well, has great action, and brings you just a step more into the game and story then it's well worth it I say.

p.s. it's more then what star trek would even dare give us :pout:

I'm worried that you will get into a battle almost kill your target but then have to give up because of bs like the hyper jump with out letting you follow them to finish the job.

I've got to say that as much as I would love an X-Wing/TIE Fighter type of play with this, I am beyond happy with ANY space battles at all.

This just shows how much Bioware has listened to what their fans want, and have provided them with some fan service that looks functional and enjoyable. Like Joe said, would you rather NO battles at all, or this kind of Star Fox style? This works just fine.

Think about how much longer and how much more work would have to go into the game to make it like TIE/X-wing... I mean they could make a game based on that entirely. I'd much rather have this and let the team focus on the true bulk of the game, because while space battles are cool, I'm getting TOR to have the KOTOR experience, not to play a half-assed KOTOR with some cool space battles.


Now... if a company could come along and make that separate X-wing/Tie Fighter sequel or remake... or even something like Rogue Squadron... I'd likely pay $60 for that (provided it gets the Angry Joe Bad Ass Seal of Approval)

Tor and GW2 are the only MMO's that I'm looking foreword too. And I can get behind this on rails space combat. Besides I played SW:G and the space combat in that...well it sucked. So this I think will turn out nice. Not sure how they can have PVP like this but we'll see soon enough.

On rails shooter...in space? Hurm. It looks very cinematic, all shiny and flashy, but not all that exciting.

To be honest though, I doubt they'd be able to pull off any grand space battles like you wanted Joe. Remember the abysmal "space battles" in KOTOR 1? Yeah, those were not a good addition to the game. I was really glad when they were left out of KOTOR 2.

So yeah...doesn't seem like a bad addition, but I'm feeling kinda meh toward it.

As long as the story is good and you get to travel a long distance and kick ass, I am all for this type of space battle. It beats getting lost in space and then finally after several hours hitting a border wall.

Nice video Joe, Personal I think this compromise is great! Because this game is an RPG like KOTOR, which means that the story and combat gonna be the driving force, and I would rather want Bioware to focus on those, the core of the game, than a smaller part. Ofc an open space combat would be cool but I might hurt the core if it was too big of a part of the game.

It's something, you're right. I loved Starfox, so I will probably enjoy this.

At least this seems to be a step in the right direction; maybe they will have the superior kind of space combat in future games or expansions. Then I can finally pilot a fat guy.

Come to think of it ... with games out as huge as Red Dead Redemption, and Just Cause 2, why don't we have a Star Wars completely 3D space shooter game like Rogue Squadron that can be online multiplayer, up to 16 players like RDR in real time, with different parts of the galaxy to explore and battle within? Find people and dogfight'em or share tasks. An open world, sandbox, grand theft auto game in a Star Wars universe?
I guess the universe would be too big, but they could do planetary space transport and have a main general starry area to just randomly find people and fight'em if you want. With different online sections of space for each planet acting as "rooms" ... Or did Galaxies already do that?

Either way, i'd love to see an updated Rogue Squadron type game for the 360.

But this rails shooter format is i think acceptable for the kind of game it's going to be. I am a player from the old Rebel Assault days, and so i can appreciate it, but it doesn't come without its share of frustrations.

It's a step in the right direction in my eyes, the way they made it sound, it's as if this is what we get... to start with, and eventually, there'll be player vs player and multiplayer additions of it, which we can cross our fingers and hope for the best of.

I think that the rail shooter part will be pretty awesome. I, personally, loved the Star Fox games on the SNES and N64 so I'm looking forward to this minigame.

Personally, I love Star Fox 64, and to have that type of gameplay applied as a mini-game away from the main MMORPG is enough for me.

In Kingdom Hearts, it didn't work quite so well, but only because it was [i]mandatory[/i], and it became repetitive as you needed to travel between worlds. But even then, I would rather have [i]that[/i] than nothing at all. To have a different style of gameplay added as a side-quest or distraction to maybe earn some loot or experience is welcomed in my eyes, because this game was already going to be amazing without this announcement.

People need to stop looking at this new Space Combat in Old Republic as its own game (such as Tie Fighter vs X-Wing), and simply look at it as a small, fan-service, [i]side-quest[/i] type of addition to an already potentially [i]incredible[/i] game that would have been just as great without this minor space combat. It is just a nice little addition to the game, just like the mini-games in Ocarina of Time. You're not meant to shoot arrows at leaping Rupees the entire game, but doing so to earn some extra stuff is still decent enough to warrant playing, and adds something to the core of the game.

That's my way of looking at it, anyway. If you're going to complain about the space combat in Old Republic, you may as well complain about the Horseshoes in Red Dead Redemption. You'll earn some extra money or whatever and just enjoy it if you want some change of pace. Old Republic could have no Space Combat whatsoever; it'll be just as entertaining, I bet.

Cant wait for this game love bioware! I had the same exact "WTF RAIL SPACE COMBAT?" reaction as Joe when I saw all of this on the official site and again the same reaction when I saw the in game video it looks pretty promising for sure just definitly not quite what we would have liked! Oh well like Joe said better to have some kind of space combat then none at all. STAR FOX AAAAAWAAAAY!

while the rebel assault games were no were near as perfect as tie fighter was i do think that having a tie fighter like mode would require basically a second game and that Bioware is just trying to throw us a bone, besides what made both tie fighter and kotor was great besides the gameplay was their stories which is where it really counts